MulSurp .308 Questions

S

San Francisquito Bill

New member
Boy do I have a lot of questions!

Well, I got my Springfield M1A Scout, and I have been looking for some good ammo to feed it. So far, I have found the following:

My store has CAVIM Venesuelan NATO ammo in 100rd Battle packs. I can get them for about 16.25 per 100. I would jump on that, but another guy with a scout brought some back and said that it malfunctioned consistently. Is CAVIM known for this?

Another local store has British Radway ammo with an '83 headstamp. It is in plastic battle packs but I just bought 5 boxes of 20 at $5 per box. More expensive, but from what I've heard, it is better ammo.

In light of this, I have a couple more questions.

1. Both brands of ammo have a discoloration near the shoulder of the case. The Brass near the base is shiny, but it becomes dull near the mouth. Is this normal?

2. Are different brands of MilSurp ammo leaded to different velocities? (I have read about ammo from different years ejecting in different patterns, but I would think that all NATO spec ammo would be loaded to a common spec.--Then again, I am pretty new to this MilSurp thing, so I wouldn't know.)

Thanks for the responses!
 
From three FAL owners' experience: British ammo was clean but a little whimpy. Cavim was very whimpy. PMP was decent but a little tarnished. No info on accuracy, only on functioning.
 
The Cavim I had was so hot I only fired one round in my Ruger 77 VT. Best textbook illustration of a flattened primer you'd ever see.

The slight discoloration near the neck and shoulder is a sign of quality, actually, indicating the neck has been properly annealed. Best, weeegee
 
I've shot plenty of both in an HK91 and it prefers the Brit over the Cavim.
Some of the Cavim had an excess amount of asphalt type sealer on the bullet that seemed to really gum up some guns. The Brit functioned very well and didn't seem "whimpy" to me, but I don't shoot it in a gas gun.
The Portugese .308 has a good reputation. There is also some Malayasion around but I've never shot any of it.

Stay away from the Norinco, it's nasty
 
I have shot the Cavim in my M1A and 7.62 Garand.
I put the remander of the Cavim into cold storage because of two things, it seemed too hot and it was not very accurate, did I mention it did not reload very well, cases stuck on the reloads with Cavim brass ( small base dies and light loads ).


[This message has been edited by HandloaderJohn (edited October 24, 2000).]
 
I chronographed some 1985 British Radway Green out of my standard M1A (22" barrel) a couple months ago. It registered around 2840 fps. We shot the same ammo out of an H&K 91 (18" barrel). Out of the H&K 91 it was running 2660 fps.

I also tested some 1978 Portugese recently out of the M1A using iron sights. I shot at 250 meters. I was able to keep the shots in about a 4" x 6" area. Not too bad.
 
I've shot through my M1A SuperMatch both the Brit and IMI surplus both function with no problems and both are accurate.

Concerning the discolored shoulder to mouth of the cases. I assume this is the annealing process for the cases in the military ammo.

Good shooting.

Turk
 
What is the deal with being a big spender on a gun and then being a cheapskate when it comes to ammo? Seems strange somehow.
 
KilgorII: What is the deal with being a big spender on a gun and then being a cheapskate when it comes to ammo? Seems strange somehow.


Well, it seems simple to me:

The gun will hopefully last a while.

The ammo won't.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by KilgorII:
What is the deal with being a big spender on a gun and then being a cheapskate when it comes to ammo? Seems strange somehow. [/quote]

It's not as strange as you might think. Most of the .308 battle rifles out there were designed and twisted to use the very ammo that is on the market now as "surplus" i.e. 147gr Nato ball.
Just because it's surplus doesn't mean it's inferior (although *some* of it is).
 
Count me in on the poop parade when it comes to CAVIM...I threw my remaining rounds away!

Try the Austrian surplus offered by aimsurplus.com excelent price and excelent ammo. Brittish ammo is great as well.

happy shooting!
 
Well the CAVIM I used was OK but out of a FR-8 Bolt gun. the primers are crimped in on mine which I don't like much. Price is good though.
 
San Fran:
I've been looking closely at an M1A scout.
Did you scope it yet? Have you shot it yet?
Would love some detailed range reviews.
Bradleyt
 
bradleyt,

Nope, haven't had a chance to shoot it yet. Been real busy at work, and when I got to the range last Monday, they'd closed. (Grr!)

Anyway, it's supposed to rain tomorrow, but I hope to put a few down range this coming Monday. I'll let you know how it goes.

P.S.--At this point, I don't plan to scope the gun. I like shooting with the iron sights. I do have my eye on the Aimpoint or Leupold Gilmour dot sights.

Later,

SFB
 
I've got a FAL & an Ishipore that I shoot surplus .308 through.

I don't like CAVIM at all. The only malfunction the FAL has ever had was with CAVIM. They are gunky, and their power varies. On some of the rounds the neck was to big, I don't know what you call that (mis-sized?). One round wouldn't even chamber in the Ishipore, and it will chamber all sorts of green funky ammo! :)

I liked the Israeli ammo from IMI. The British stuff worked fine as well. However I've not ever gone for any really serious accuracy work with these so I can't really tell you what the group sizes would be like. Haven't tried any Portugese. The Malaysian I've shot was really dirty, I didn't have a chance to shoot any of it through the FAL to check for reliability but it worked fine in the Ishipore.
 
I'm suprised nobody has mentioned "Hirtenberger" 147 gr. Reloadable
brass clean and cheap, $150./K
Runs great in my FAL.
 
Ok here’s my $.02
Cavim -its not too hot and for shooting ammo its cheap enough. I have always had acceptable results.

South African PMP- (M1A3)Shoots goods but the hottest surplus stuff to date (accuracy seems to be on par with the rest thought I tend to think it is better. Just got some M1A2 get back with me in a few weeks.

Indian- An inexpensive ammo good for blasting toward the lower end of power. Have not tired it in a semi auto yet ( a timething as in not enough of)

Portuguese Fairly accurate on par with the South African but Not as hot.

Radway green (just got it try me again in a week or so, though there have been reports of cracked cases from too much tension from seating the bullet to tight. (most of this stuff is surplus machinegun rounds delinked and boxed)

Hirtenberger by all reports this is the best of the surplus stuff.

There is also
US Lake City surplus (if you can find it)
IMI Israeli
Malaysian,
PMC South Korea
Chilean

I tend to Believe that if you want match quality ammo then buy or load Match quality ammo. The Military (every body’s) typically doesn’t use the top grades of powder for their ammunition, their surplus won’t be any better.

What I look for in surplus ammo is stuff that feeds and shoots (within an acceptable level of accuracy). Cost vs the other factors are some of my considerations. IMHO the best part of Mil Surplus is that they generally seal the primers and bullets against moisture, and if it is stored right, it has a long shelf life. The other problem is we have trouble finding the same type of surplus ammo, not to mention the same Lot. It would be different if we knew that Lot X of brand Y of surplus ammo, was the best on the market. But it is not to be, its hard enough finding more than a few cases of any particular surplus type let alone finding several cases from the same Lot after you have had time to figure out if it is best out there. Heck the different storage conditions could affect the performance just within a certain lot.

So in IMHO searching for the perfect surplus Military round is about as productive as looking for the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. After all if the ammo was that great why did the military get rid of it??
 
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