Moving a Handgun

U

uFu

Inactive
Hi, newbie here. I'm hoping folks here can help me out with a bit of advice.

Several years ago I moved from PA to NY. Since I was expecting to come back to PA, I moved a bunch of stuff into storage (in PA), including my handgun. I'm currently in the process of moving from NY to Seattle, and I'm trying to figure out the best way to get my gun there.

We're doing a 2-week road trip, and I'd prefer not to have it in the trunk the whole time.

I spoke with a Seattle-area FFL, who said he'd accept shipment, but could only give it to someone who'd been a resident for 90 days. I suppose I could wait, or "sell" it to my girlfriend (who's already out there).

The other issue is that he said he could only accept shipment from another FFL, and I'm wondering if an FFL in PA would have issues with the whole thing, since I'm no longer a PA resident.

For that matter, am I even legal to transport the gun from the storage unit to the FFL (locked and in the trunk obviously)?

Anyone have any thoughts?

Thanks!
 
in PA moving the pistol from storage to an FFL you good to go as long as it is unloaded and separate from the ammo. As far as I know you can ship it from a PA FFL but I would be sure the FFL you have in mind will do the transfer before you do it. They will charge you a fee as it will need to go into his book. and all that paperwork.
 
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe it is legal to ship to yourself. If you have an address in WA you might check into it.
 
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe it is legal to ship to yourself. If you have an address in WA you might check into it.
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I believe that only applies to long guns. I may be mistaken, though.
 
I must be missing something. All of this fuss over a gun that might take up a half cubic foot in your trunk, separated from the ammo, and out of reach for a two week trip. I can't imagine paying an FFL fee (maybe two) plus shipping cost plus my time to deliver and retrieve it. I won't even ask....I must be too cheap! :rolleyes:
 
Thanks for all the answers. To Eagle Eye, my biggest concern with stashing it in the trunk for the trip is that FOPA only allows for food & gas stops. The law doesn't even mention sleep, so I think the Grand Canyon and Hoover Dam would be pushing it a bit :)
 
Check the BATFE FAQ. It IS legal for you to ship any firearm to yourself. If it's a handgun, you can't use the postal service, you'll have to use UPS or FedEx. It can be addressed to you in care of someone else, who will sign for the package, but it must be made clear that whoever receives it cannot open the package. You have to pack the gun, you have to ship the gun, and only you can open the package on the other end.

Fully legal.
 
It's legal to ship (not mail) a handgun to yourself. Good luck in getting UPS to go along with it, legal or not. The other problem is that UPS will only ship handguns Next Day Air. Which means that the OP is going to have to drive like heck to get from PA to WA the next day to receive his handgun.

http://www.ups.com/content/us/en/resources/ship/packaging/guidelines/firearms.html?srch_pos=1

"Handguns, as defined by 18 U.S.C. § 921,will be accepted for transportation only via UPS Next Day Air Services, specifically, UPS Next Day Air® Early A.M.®, UPS Next Day Air®, and UPS Next Day Air Saver®. (Note: UPS Express CriticalSM Service is not available for firearms)."

I suspect you'd be better off to pack it in the trunk, very unloaded, in a locked box and take it with you. You won't have to go through NJ to get to WA from PA.
 
Thanks for all the answers. To Eagle Eye, my biggest concern with stashing it in the trunk for the trip is that FOPA only allows for food & gas stops. The law doesn't even mention sleep, so I think the Grand Canyon and Hoover Dam would be pushing it a bit
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FOPA -- "Fraternal Order of Police Associates" or "Firearm Owners Protection Act of 1986" ? I presume you mean the latter.

UFU: Sometimes we can become paralyzed by over analyzing any situation. Many years ago I moved from California to South Carolina. The Bekins Boys carried my guns. I spent or gave away all of my ammunition so there was no chance of a hazardous incident. Legal? Probably not.

I even took the wheels off my Honda 350, bolted it to a pallet and encased it. The label said "electronic equipment." It had been drained of fluids and did not present a hazard. Bekins even knew what it was, but the military would not ship it in that manner for me. It got the job done, I could sleep at night and no risk was taken.

As I have grown older I have learned that common sense usually prevails. Professional LEOs will respect it.

When I go on vacations, a handgun goes with me. It is inaccessible and not near ammunition. In some states this is legal. In some it is not.

I will not violate any (other) laws, I do not look suspicious, I do not fit any "profiles", I have never been arrested, never smoked pot, never drank and drove, never used or been in a room with any drugs or any other illegal activity. If I get stopped it will be a minor traffic violation and the official will have no reason to search my car.

I could go on and on, but I think you get my point. I would never advocate any illegal activity, but if one over thinks a situation it can become crippling.

You must have more important considerations in a cross country move. I sure did. Things like housing, schools, jobs, moving your entire household. I cannot imagine obsessing over how to transport my guns in a move which are but a speck on my entire household.

I don't mean to be critical, so please do not take any of my comments that way. But please do not worry about the small things. Be safe. Be reasonable. Be respectful. Enjoy your trip. Either pack your gun in the trunk or the moving van. Do not pack any ammo. If you are feeling guilty, talk to a lawyer first. You might as well pile a bunch of money on this issue of moving an item that surely is worth less than $1k. :rolleyes:
 
Welcome to The Firing Line, uFu!

Were I in your position, I would not want to take a 2-week road trip across the country without a handgun. I would go here: http://www.handgunlaw.us/ & figure out the carry laws in all of the states I expected to cross. Then I would simply carry it with me. I realize that means stopping at state borders to rearrange the pistol so as to conform to local law.

If you have a concealed carry permit that is recognized in some of the states in which you will be travelling, that might make matters somewhat simpler. If not, do you have time to get one?

Edited to add: For that matter, take a look at federal law.
§ 926A. Interstate transportation of firearms
Currentness
Notwithstanding any other provision of any law or any rule or regulation of a State or any political subdivision thereof, any person who is not otherwise prohibited by this chapter from transporting, shipping, or receiving a firearm shall be entitled to transport a firearm for any lawful purpose from any place where he may lawfully possess and carry such firearm to any other place where he may lawfully possess and carry such firearm if, during such transportation the firearm is unloaded, and neither the firearm nor any ammunition being transported is readily accessible or is directly accessible from the passenger compartment of such transporting vehicle: Provided, That in the case of a vehicle without a compartment separate from the driver's compartment the firearm or ammunition shall be contained in a locked container other than the glove compartment or console.

18 U.S.C.A. § 926A (West)
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But:

§ 927. Effect on State law
Currentness
No provision of this chapter shall be construed as indicating an intent on the part of the Congress to occupy the field in which such provision operates to the exclusion of the law of any State on the same subject matter, unless there is a direct and positive conflict between such provision and the law of the State so that the two cannot be reconciled or consistently stand together.

18 U.S.C.A. § 927 (West)
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uFu said:
Thanks for all the answers. To Eagle Eye, my biggest concern with stashing it in the trunk for the trip is that FOPA only allows for food & gas stops. The law doesn't even mention sleep, so I think the Grand Canyon and Hoover Dam would be pushing it a bit
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The FOPA says nothing about allowing only food and gas stops. It doesn't mention sleep, and it also doesn't mention food or fuel. All it says is "during such transportation." If you are transporting across the country, since it's impossible to make the trip without refueling and highly improbable and unwise that the trip could be made without eating, eliminating, and sleeping, the law covers routine stops that are part of the journey.


US Code said:
TITLE 18--CRIMES AND CRIMINAL PROCEDURE

PART I--CRIMES

CHAPTER 44--FIREARMS

Sec. 926A. Interstate transportation of firearms

Notwithstanding any other provision of any law or any rule or
regulation of a State or any political subdivision thereof, any person
who is not otherwise prohibited by this chapter from transporting,
shipping, or receiving a firearm shall be entitled to transport a
firearm for any lawful purpose from any place where he may lawfully
possess and carry such firearm to any other place where he may lawfully
possess and carry such firearm if, during such transportation the
firearm is unloaded, and neither the firearm nor any ammunition being
transported is readily accessible or is directly accessible from the
passenger compartment of such transporting vehicle: Provided, That in
the case of a vehicle without a compartment separate from the driver's
compartment the firearm or ammunition shall be contained in a locked
container other than the glove compartment or console.
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That said, it doesn't take two weeks to get from NY or PA to WA, so the trip must be planning some sightseeing stops. I think that muddies the waters considerably, and may render the FOPA inapplicable to this trip. So shipping to yourself is probably the best alternative. I have shipped firearms by UPS. You have to ship from a UPS hub, not a UPS Store (which is an independent franchise), and you have to declare that it's a firearm (per Federal law, not UPS regulation). The UPS hub near me didn't even raise an eyebrow.
 
The other problem is that UPS will only ship handguns Next Day Air. Which means that the OP is going to have to drive like heck to get from PA to WA the next day to receive his handgun.
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Someone else is allowed to sign for and accept the package, as long as no one else opens it other than you, the actual owner. That way no one else actually takes possession.

It would make little sense for this not to be able to take place.
 
Someone else is allowed to sign for and accept the package, as long as no one else opens it other than you, the actual owner. That way no one else actually takes possession.
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I've been advised by a FFL that it's better to use the "Hold for Pickup" option with yourself as the recipient. The nearest UPS hub will call the recipient (you) when it arrives and hold it until it is picked up rather than sending it out on the truck. This eliminates the risk that an unauthorized person may open the box when it arrives. Since the OP will be traveling anyway, it may not be a big hassle to stop at the UPS hub on the way.
 
To be clear I would only do this with someone I knew I could trust, or in an arrangement I felt very comfortable with. Sometimes going to a hub if you are traveling isn't convenient.

I would also consider using a nano-vault- that way only you have the key, even if someone opens up the outer packaging box.
 
Wow, thanks for all the input :)

Yeah, I'm almost certainly worrying too much, especially since my understanding of federal law appears to have been incorrect (I'm now not sure which statute I actually read).

Even if it were illegal under federal or state law, in principle I'd be okay with it, since as far as I'm concerned the 2nd Amendment trumps any legislation. As a practical matter though, some of those laws are pretty Draconian (I currently live in NYC, which is the whole reason my gun doesn't live with me to begin with) and some cops can get over-zealous. I really don't care for the chance, however small, of spending a million years in prison.

In the end I decided to go with caution. I found an FFL at each end, introduced them to each other, and agreed to give each his pound of flesh. Now I can spend the next few days worrying about whether my gun is actually going to make it there :(

Anyway, thanks again for all the replies.

-J
 
You know, I don't know of any state west of Pennsylvania except for Illinois and California where it wouldn't be perfectly legal to have an unloaded, cased handgun in the trunk of your car, regardless of what you're doing in that state. You might want to check the web for laws on the states you plan to travel through or visit, but IIWY, I'd case it up, put it under the luggage in the trunk and forget about it.

If I were me, I'd load it and carry it concealed. God bless the LEO Protection Act of 2004! ;)
 
Did not used to be a problem in California. Has something changed? It has been a few decades since I have lived there.
 
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