Mosin Accuracy and Jam-Fix Prototype Kit -- Opinions???

J

Josh Smith

Moderator
Hi Folks,

This is in the works. I'd like your thoughts. I do apologize for the poor pic; I got to the shop and realized I forgot my camera so I used my phone:

smith%20sights%20no%20jam%20kit%20prototype.jpg


Would include:

Magazine toe shim
Tang shim
Front action shim
Recoil lug shim
Barrel pressure pad
Modified interrupter

and

HV magazine

This should fix any feed jams/rimlock encountered on Mosin rifles and carbines.

I currently have one prototype out and another getting ready to go out.

I've been running one on my personal Mosin for quite a while and it won't jam up, period.

I'd like your thoughts. Is this something you'd like to see? It's designed to fix the "hopeless case" Mosins, the ones that have resisted fixes thus far.

Opinions?

Regards,

Josh
 
I really have no use for a Russian long gun, but I can never remember one jamming on me. Are these junk Chinese copies with the problems?
 
Clearly you are better versed in the internals of the Moisin than I am (mausers were my thing), I cannot help but wonder if your fix if for a problem that simply does not exist, in general.

I know that the Moisin uses a system specifically designed to avoid/minimize rimlock, and I understand it works. I think if there was an actual issue with the design not feeding, it likely would have been found, and fixed, oh, somewhere around 100 years ago.

So, if you are having jamming issues its because of a flaw in execution of the design, not the design itself. Worn parts? Outside of proper specs due to wartime production shortcuts? What ever the reason, Moisins don't have a reputation for jamming, so ones that do, are individually flawed. Your kit might be the fix for them, I'll take your word for that. But I don't think its the kind of thing "every Moisin owner needs to get..."

I've got two of them, the 91/30 long rifle and an M38 carbine. Haven't shot them much, but neither has ever hinted at a feeding jam. And the M38 I have (which looks brand new) is the slickest working MN I have ever handled. Nearly all are clunky and often sticky working (probably due to a less than through cleaning), but the little M38 I have actually works smoothly and slickly, head and shoulders above the usual for feel. Actually feels like a decent bolt action, :rolleyes::D
 
Clearly you are better versed in the internals of the Moisin than I am (mausers were my thing), I cannot help but wonder if your fix if for a problem that simply does not exist, in general.

I know that the Moisin uses a system specifically designed to avoid/minimize rimlock, and I understand it works. I think if there was an actual issue with the design not feeding, it likely would have been found, and fixed, oh, somewhere around 100 years ago.

So, if you are having jamming issues its because of a flaw in execution of the design, not the design itself. Worn parts? Outside of proper specs due to wartime production shortcuts? What ever the reason, Moisins don't have a reputation for jamming, so ones that do, are individually flawed. Your kit might be the fix for them, I'll take your word for that. But I don't think its the kind of thing "every Moisin owner needs to get..."
Click to expand...

The Finnish did address this with the HV mag, this thing:

smith-sights%20no-jam%20difference.jpg


When wood shrank (like in cold, dry weather), the follower could end up being fully compressed and push the round past the interrupter, resulting in rimlock.

Most of the time, rimlock is not an issue for Mosins in the US, but it still is a definite issue.

I developed the additions to this kit (which I developed for personal use in 2012 and began marketing due to customer request in 2013) because some customers have continued to have occasional rimlock.

Most of these rifles are in wartime stocks, and wartime stocks were not inletted too well.

Two of these customers have this prototype kit, and they'll be giving feedback.

From the mixed messages I'm getting, this is a good idea, but will sell limited numbers.

In other words, it generally will not be needed, but if it is needed, it will be needed badly.

Regards,

Josh
 
Thanks for the explanation!

Yes, I agree, one of those things that has no use unless you need it, but if you do, you do, and need it badly.

Just out of curiosity, why wouldn't simply relieving the wood in the problem area not be a fix?

Wait, strike that, its shrinkage, (pulling away), right? Removing wood won't fix that, nevermind! ;)
 
No Mosin's accuracy will be improved with any kind of shim. These are battle rifles designed to be issued to illiterate conscripts. Very much doubt anybody will spend any money on a virtually non-existent issue.
 
No Mosin's accuracy will be improved with any kind of shim. These are battle rifles designed to be issued to illiterate conscripts. Very much doubt anybody will spend any money on a virtually non-existent issue.
Click to expand...

I'm sorry; that's misinformation.

Josh
 
No Mosin's accuracy will be improved with any kind of shim. These are battle rifles designed to be issued to illiterate conscripts. Very much doubt anybody will spend any money on a virtually non-existent issue.
Click to expand...

As Mr. Smith has stated, this is false.

Before I shimmed my Mosin and bedded the barrel channel with cork (a variation of Mr. Smith's original method) My groups shrank from 10" at 100 yards to 1 5/8" at 75 yards with the same ammo After this shimming.

I think this is a good idea, Josh, do you have a price on these yet? (Sorry if I missed it)
 
Hi MM,

The shim kits themselves have been available for a while for $12.75.

The Jam Fixer kits, I'm thinking I'll make around $50. That includes the $45 HV mag that I currently sell, so you'd in effect be getting a modified shim kit for $5.

Regards,

Josh
 
Can you upload a picture of a Mosin rimlock jam?

What kind of Mosin jam...when the base of the cartridge is uplifted by the bolt, with the bullet pointed downwards into the lower forearm?

I've had this kind of jam with my Mosin before, and heard a ND can occur when the bolt is forced closed --- with the bullet exiting out of the lower forearm stock.
 
It seems to be a "every now and then" thing for me. I get them occasionally, though I usually load by hand and only get them with when loading with clips.
 
My groups shrank from 10" at 100 yards to 1 5/8" at 75 yards with the same ammo After this shimming.
Click to expand...
Will these kits really make that much difference?
I have owned several mosins 91/30 m44 and have shot others as well all are about as accurate as a shotgun. I really don't shot them anymore do to the terrible accuracy. I don't think I have ever had one jam on me though.
 
Hi MM,

I found I got excessive heating when I did the complete bedding of the barrel. It was good for a while then it just got too hot. That's why I stopped.

Just something to watch!

Regards,

Josh
 
I tend to put only maybe a maximum of 10 rounds through it and that's quite a bit for a normal day. Mostly only 5 rounds. I really like your idea though!

By the way, you dont think that would lower my barrel life dramatically would it?
 
Will these kits really make that much difference?
I have owned several mosins 91/30 m44 and have shot others as well all are about as accurate as a shotgun. I really don't shot them anymore do to the terrible accuracy. I don't think I have ever had one jam on me though.
Click to expand...

Yes, in Russian guns. Finnish guns usually have this done already. The Finnish M39 was required to hold 1.3moa or better to be issued to the average trooper!

Standard military surplus ammo is held to 1.5moa to 4moa or so. The early stuff made in Britain was 1.5moa from a test barrel, while light ball tends to be the 4moa stuff (exceptions being Czech and 7n1 sniper).

Given a good bore and barrel, your standard Russian rifle should do 2.5moa or better.

If not, something's wrong.

Regards,

Josh
 
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