More .460 S&W Magmun

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OldGunner

New member
I make a little money now and then zeroing big bore stuff (rifles & pistols) for people who don't want to do it themselves. By the way, I never fire a clients gun with anything but factory ammo. I fired TWO SHOTS with a .454 Casull and went back to the house. The next day I went to my local gun store and purchased two boxes of .45 LC. I zeroed the gun with the LC at 25 yards and then finished up zeroing it dead on at 50 yards with the .454s. Slightly under 2", I might add. The 454 is a horse, and I was not about to shoot as many rounds in one session as it would take to do the job properly using full boat .454 loads. Which brings me to the .460 S&W.

I don't personally know anyone who has shot the thing. BUT, I'm hearing stuff. I've heard that it's the flattest shooting thing ever, BUT with 200 gr bullets. Who has ever shot much stuff over .41M with 200 gr bullets? (I love Corbin though, and I'm sure they work.) I've read that when you get tired of the pounding of the .460, you can "drop down to" .454s. (Please see the above.) I know that anything with a compensator generally has a little (read: a lot of) muzzle blast. I THINK I want one, but, fortunately, in the DFW area we have a couple of ranges that will rent us one. I like big bores, but I think I'll shoot this one before I fork over $1200 bucks cause if I buy it, I'll shoot .460s in it, not .454s or .45LCs.

No offense intended.
 
I was weary to shoot the 500 when it first came out...just thinking about it made me cringe...such a large bullet, going so fast out of a handgun just had to be nothing short of painful. First time i touched off a round, i laughed out loud..."thats it?!?!". The heavy weight combined with the excellent compensator make the 500 a CAT...i can only imagine that the 460 will have even less recoil....i can honestly see myself buying one for deer this year if finances allow. Not only an interesting conversation peice at the range, but looks to be a really good shooter too...Dan Johnson from guns and ammo did a write-up on it and seemed pleased with its performance. I hate carrying around a heavy, clunky rifle...this just might be the ticket!!
 
The articles I've read about it claim that the .460 has about the same recoil as a mid-level .44 mag.

I think full-house .44 mag's are fun, myself. :)

I haven't shot a .454 yet though (or a .500). I'm trying to decide if that's my next purchase. :)
 
I am curious to hear more about the ballistics of this new cartridge as well.
So far, they're making a big deal about getting 2300 fps, but this is with a 200 grain bullet. Hell, my .454 Casull can safely get around 2100 fps with a 260 grain bullet, for about 200 more ft-lbs of energy. I'm betting it should be no problem to match the ballistics of the .460 S&W with a 200 grainer. Anyone know what it can do with 300 grainers, or heavier?

So far, it seems like it won't offer a great leap in power over the .454; or at least not as big a leap like between .454 and .45 Colt. Perhaps the .460 mag could give the same performance with much lower pressures; that could be a selling point in its own right. But it seems like a small niche to fill, much like the .480 Ruger in that regard.
 
I think the difference is that they're making the same energy at 200 yards and at 250 yards they're making the same amount of energy as from the muzzle of a .44 mag.

Or something like that. I need to re-read the specs and articles. :)

There are cartirdges that make as much energy as this one, but none that are as flat shooting and have such a range as this. It's making the same amount of energy as a Casull but with only a 200 grain projectile and much further.
 
I hate carrying around a heavy, clunky rifle...this just might be the ticket!!
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Jeffro250,

With the 8 3/8” 460 S&W Magnum weighing in at 73 oz or 4.56lbs, I personally would prefer my 16” Model 92 Puma in .454 Casull that weighs in at 5.1 lbs and gives me the same ballistics with a 260 grain bullet, and if I don’t mind a hard knock to the shoulder I can get those ballistics out of a 300 grain bullet. It doesn’t necessarily matter, but I also get 2 extra bullets into my rifle as well. Just my opinion, I love revolver hunting, but a gun that is 4.5 lbs seems a bit overboard to me. I would love to see someone who hunts often enough try to hold a bag of suger in their hand and try to track a large buck in their sights as he moves down a ridgeline waiting for that perfect shot. I have a feeling they will be shaking by the time that shot arrives. I am not trying to knock the gun or you, I just wanted to point out that there are alternatives in the rifle category that are not so clunky or heavy. :) Well everyone, have a great day.

.44mag
 
I am not trying to knock the gun or you, I just wanted to point out that there are alternatives in the rifle category that are not so clunky or heavy.
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That's also what I was thinking when I read the "heavy and clunky rifles" comment. My Ruger Deerfield is practically like a 10/22 but you've got five fast rounds of .44 Magnum instead. Heck of a woods deer rifle. 6.25 pounds and I guarantee you can slay a deer with it at 200 yards. My dream is to take that rifle and mount some type of red-dot sight on it. I don't want a red-dot that is "scope like" though. I want fast, fast, fast! Then when I jump up a deer in heavy cover I've actually got a chance to get on it and fire an accurate shot before it disappears.

Gregg
 
Mr. .44 mag-
I have looked at those handy little .454 lever guns several times, and love the concept. However, my concern is whether they are strong enough to withstand Freedom Arms level loads. (in fact, a local store owner flat out says don't try it.) I don't have my loading notes here right now, but could the Puma withstand a 260 grain bullet over 37 grains of Win 296/H110? How hot have you been loading it? If it can't take the pressure, I will not own one; I don't want to worry about getting the ammo mixed up.
 
Check out this article by Paco Kelly who writes for Gunblast.com.

http://www.gunblast.com/Paco_Legacy_454.htm

An Exerpt from the article....

I guess I am big enough to admit that I didn’t think the 92 design would take the 62,000 psi+ pressures of the Freedom Arms/Casull 454 cartridge over a sustained amount of shooting at that pressure. And I have stated that many times in print.

But so far my Legacy Puma 454 is still tight after 500+ rounds of 60 to 65,000 psi pressures, and another 250 rounds of my heavy handloads.
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I have tried at least half of the loads that were posted in that article and am still going down the list as I have time and the powder. I have put well over 1,000 .454's through this gun, as well as about 1,500 Colts, and another 2,000 to 3,000 45 Auto Rims. I love stuffing it full of 200 grain SWC Auto Rims for plinking at the range and turkey hunting. :) I have been very happy with it, mine is Stainless, a limited run I think in that length and being stainless. Have fun.

.44mag

P.S. After posting this, I found the following on Freedom Arms site:

37.0 grains of 296 behind a 260 grain JHP produces 53,100 CUP for pressure. My favorite 300 grain load that I shoot in this gun produces 600 CUP more than that. That load is 30 grains of H110 behind a 300 grain JFP, which by the way I also shoot out of my buddies Ruger Super Redhawk most Saturday afternoons.
 
Thanks for the quick reply, .44.
Perhaps my fears are unfounded then. I don't have any cash right now, but will seriously consider one of those Pumas in the future.

Yeah, the 260 grain loads are just Freedom Arms max loads. But I think the loads I use with heavier bullets are actually hotter. Going from memory here, I think I am using 32 grains of w296 behind 335 grain bullets; I forget how much under 300 grainers. I don't know how much higher the pressures are on these. 70,000 psi? But at least it sounds like the gun won't explode, so I suppose I could carefully work my way up, and see if I notice any undue wear.

thanks again.
 
the possum,

Actually SAAMI max pressure for the 454 casull is 65,000 PSI, while Hodgdon lists the max at 55,000 CUP. Now I know that a lot of people use PSI and CUP pretty much interchangeably these days, but I don’t think the two equate the same. From what I understand your 70,000 PSI loads are probably in the 60,000 CUP range, not at all unsafe, and as you can see from the article I posted before, within the safety range of the Puma’s Model 92 action.

I am a huge .45 Colt fan and enjoy the .454, I actually got the gun to have the choice of shooting .454 when I wanted it. The sights have long been replaced on it with a williams peep sight and I have been very happy with it. I have found a few specific loads that I like in it in each cartridge I mentioned earlier. I have tons of .45 AR brass laying around, so I load the hell out of it for fun. Well have a good one.

.44mag
 
that brings me to the question can the Ruger SRH .454 casull handle the full house freedom arms loads I read from an article that the Ruger built it to tolerate over 75,000 cup but wasnt sure if that was true
 
osirus101,

The highest pressure load that I can find on Freedom Arms website is a 260 grain JFP using 32.0 grains of A.A NO. 9 powder pushing the bullet at 1800fps and creating 57,800 CUP of pressure. The Ruger SRH is well within it's safety limit for that, as are most guns that were chambered for .454 Casull. I haven't seen any reloading manuals that push the pressure any higher than that, although I have read some homegrown loads to push well over 60,000 CUP. It has been my understanding from what I have read in numerous articles and publications that Ruger makes their guns to handle almost twice the safe SAAMI pressures. So in this case with 55,000 CUP being the safe zone, I think that 75,000 CUP wouldn't be hard to believe with a Ruger. I will try to get some more concrete data for you, I am curious to know the numbers myself, but I can tell you that I have loaded some extremely hot loads in both a SRH and a Puma with both handling the loads like champs. :) Have a great one.

http://www.freedomarms.com/loading.html

.44mag
 
Once S&W produces the .460 in a 4 inch (hoping they do) I will be right to the dealer to put my order in. I am excited about this round and the Platform its fired from is so versatile and well made I can't wait.
 
The highest pressure load that I can find on Freedom Arms website is a 260 grain JFP using 32.0 grains of A.A NO. 9 powder pushing the bullet at 1800fps and creating 57,800 CUP of pressure... I haven't seen any reloading manuals that push the pressure any higher than that, although I have read some homegrown loads to push well over 60,000 CUP.

It has been my understanding from what I have read in numerous articles and publications that Ruger makes their guns to handle almost twice the safe SAAMI pressures... I am curious to know the numbers myself, but I can tell you that I have loaded some extremely hot loads in both a SRH and a Puma with both handling the loads like champs. Have a great one.
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For what it's worth, Monte from Alaska mentions some home brewed loads back in the duplex and triplex days that he thought were in the 100,000 psi range. Dick Casull used to demonstrate the strength of his new revolver by scooping a case full of Unique, seating a bullet, and firing it with a lanyard. I have no idea what kind of pressure would be generated by that much fast powder, but the guns held. But Monte could speak on this subject better than me.

I thought I read just recently that the Ruger guns were proofed at 65,000 psi. I could be wrong on the exact number, but I remember thinking it was funny that their "proof" loads would be considered "standard" loads by Freedom Arms.
 
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