Moral Dilemma of sorts: online vs brick n mortar retailer

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VirtualGreg

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As some of you may be aware through other threads I have been acquiring all the bits and pieces needed to assemble the bolt action rifle I've been dreaming of for some time. I literally now have everything I need to put this baby together except for the rifle itself.... vice/scope mounting accessories/scope/rings/base/ammo/laser sighter/cleaning kit/case/bipod/sling the whole 9 yards... (I think) -- anyway all I need is the rifle itself.

I know exactly what model of rifle I want, and am now faced with a quandry.

Nobody in town stocks it, though I'm sure some could order it. I spent some time this weekend at one of the local gunshops, not affiliated with any major chain and I asked if the guy could get it. He didn't have any way of ordering it but said he could call around other local dealers to get it in. I'm not optimistic of this approach since I've already been around most.

I asked about an FFL transfer cost, and his response surprised me ... $25 for everyone except Buds Guns, $40 for them. I immediately asked why the exception and he replied they can't compete.

So after we part company I immediately look up buds and sure enough it is cheaper by far than anywhere else I'd seen it online, AND it's in stock. I was ready to buy from centerifreguns.com but they refreshed inventory online and no longer have the rifle I want in stock.

So I can order from buds for a very good price, and the $40 FFL more than offsets the sale tax alone, let alone the fact it's somewhere in the region of $300 cheaper than any brick and mortar shop. Even our local Gander Mountain wants to sell for $250 more than buds and I figure they're big enough to command a reasonable rate...

So... where do you guys draw the line on this front? I'm all for supporting the local guys, I really am, and would rather give my business to them over places like Gander Mountain, but I'm on a budget, and buying from buds offsets some of the extra cost I've invested into this... But when the difference is as much as $350 ... ?

And the side poll... would it make me a complete a-hole to have had the conversation I've had with the owner AND THEN buy from buds and use them for FFL. They at least get some business for the transfer and it's not like they had the rifle I want in stock...

Thoughts ?

Apologies if this has been beaten to death, I did a quick cpl of searches but no threads jumped out at me.
 
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would it make me a complete a-hole to have had the conversation I've had with the owner AND THEN buy from buds and use them for FFL.
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Based on how you presented the facts, I would say no way!!

Business is business, not personal. You asked an honest question, he gave you an honest answer. If he's only charging $40, that's on him. The guy is getting paid $40 for faxing a copy of his FFL and then calling you when the gun arrives.. that's pretty good money for doing not much of anything. (Someone correct me if I'm wrong on his time requirements in this deal.)
 
Good question. IMO, you gave the FFL the opportunity to sell you a rifle and make his nominal markup and he was unwilling or unable to do it. So, you ask how much to do an FFL transfer, and he wants to dictate how much he will charge depending on where you buy the gun. Sounds to me like your FFL dealer has the ethical issue.

An FFL transfer is a simple paperwork transaction, it takes no more to transfer a gun from Bud's than from anyone else. Some dealers may give him a price break, and with the kind of markup you are talking about he may be trying to get a little bigger slice of the pie. I would try a different gunshop to see if the owner has a standard FFL transfer fee, no matter where the gun comes from.
 
The way I understand it just about anyone can become an FFL authorized middle-man (not sure the correct term here) but I have an easier time trusting a gun retailer than some random John Doe who filled out the paperwork, so I do want to do this through a regular gun retailer.

The other reason for this is I'm a permanent resident alien, not a citizen, so I have to bring some extra paperwork to the table for the ATF side of things and I figure this has a better chance of being pain free at places that are accustomed to this than those who aren't. Plus they can sanity check as I fill out the form.

Gander Mountain want to charge me $75 and the employee says he needs to check with his manager about stuff -- he was blunt that they want people to buy from them and equally blunt that they cannot compete with the online retailers either, so I read the subtext there that they'll happily put some extra red tape in the way to try and get you to buy from them.

This local guy says $40 for buds, which is still a good deal, and hence why I'm still leaning his way.

I may call a couple of the other local stores and see what they say since I haven't asked with all of them about FFL.

Thanks for the swift replies ndking/Scorch.
 
I truly feel your pain,as we all need local gun stores for the survival of our sport.Having said that,almost every gun I've ever purchased has been sent directly from a wholesaler (like Buds) who will do such a thing.Gander Mountain regularly has guns for $200-$300 more than I can get them for at Buds and there's no way I intend to spend that kind of cash.The gun stores around me are not very friendly,so other than small stuff or the occasional unplanned purchase of a used gun (like the Sears model 25 I recently purchased at a pawn/gun store) i get my guns online. :)
 
$25 per transfer is the standard rate where I am... Wouldn't pay more. Setting a $15 premium for Buds just seems kinda wierd to me...
 
My "guy" at the LGS and I know each other well. He's got my # programmed in his phone so he knows it's me when I call...:)

We had this conversation, it's a part of business. He's one of the dealers for Gallery of Guns, always the lowest in the group. I don't mind paying a few bucks more through him, if he can get what I want. I give him the best chance to compete. If he can't, he gets the transfer...no hard feelings...

With that said, I'm not some yahoo that's gonna come in, waste hours of his time showing me guns, and then buy online. That's just wrong....
 
Many people do not understand or know what happens with an FFL purchase. So many people just see a "piece of paper" being faxed and a phone call. Since so many people complain about transfer fees let me put it to you this way.

1. There is always overhead at a brick and mortar. Once the gun comes in an employee has to put the gun in the system. Call the person then spend the time with the customer filling out paperwork. After that is done an employee then has to file paperwork and that FFL is RESPONSIBLE for that paperwork for a number of years.

2. Said employees have to be paid, they don't work for free. Not to mention the time of utilities etc. that the shop is open. There are operating costs involved with running any business. That is why a fee is charged for transfers. Some more than others but the LGS try to make some money off of a transfer and to offset the costs of TIME. In business time is money...it is what it is.

3. Let's not go into the customer blaming the gun shop for lost or damaged goods. Or for example, Bud's promises the gun comes with 3 mags and shows up with 1 and wants the LGS to pay for the 2 extra mags. Happens more than you think.

This post is by no means is me trying to be a smarta**, but I don't think people truly understand business and what entails a transfer being done.
 
Let's not forget that part of that fee is the Dealer is taking on some level of risk, and must pay to maintain their dealer status.

I'd say buy it where you can get the best deal, and maybe get your ammo locally. I like to buy local as well, support the local economy, but you can do that in a variety of ways, over time.
 
A little off topic,but it has to do with a relationship with the brick and mortat guy.I shop a small local gun shop,plus,nearby is a Sportsman's warehouse,etc.I have a plastic card and a computer.
Every chance I get,I buy my powder,bullets,primers,patches,solvent,etc from my small local shop,even if it means paying a couple dollars more.He sees my face,and he sees me spending $60 or $120 at a time,and he knows I am not spending it at Sportsman's.
I do not trouble him to special order $100 of parts from Midway,etc,that he does not have in stock.
Times I have bought a scope,or progressive press,or another large ticket item,I have had a frank conversation,and said"I want to give YOU first chance at my business,and I do not care if you are somewhat higher,but I cannot afford to pay an extra $100 to buy this item from you.What deal can we do?
Sometimes,he beats everybody,sometimes,he says"That ad is selling them cheaper than I can buy them" and he cannot compete,and I buy the cheap deal.Thing is,I always give him first chance at my buck.
Then,when it comes time to order a gun on his FFL from a cheap source...he smiles,and is happy to help out a loyal customer.
He does tend to prefer wholesalers he has an FFL on file,and an account with,as his process works for him.It takes time for him to deal with some supplier I have found.Then he has me checking in for weeks/months asking"Has it shipped yet?",Which leads to "I'll call,and see what they say"
Its a two way street.I try to act like we are on the same team.
 
I asked about an FFL transfer cost, and his response surprised me ... $25 for everyone except Buds Guns, $40 for them. I immediately asked why the exception and he replied they can't compete.
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I'd tell him I'd order it from him for a $25.00 transfer fee, otherwise I'd go somewhere else.
 
Funny - my local FFL refers people to Buds whenever he doesn't have what they're looking for --- and he processes for $20.

Our cost at the ffl is writtenn in black and white:
- their inventory - whatever they charge - which changes depending on demand.

- Special orders --- cost plus 5% (reasonable, if you ask me)

- FFL transfer fees --- $25 ($20 for Buds - which is a volume source)

The Buds'-friendly FFL does more business than the Gallery of Guns dealer.
 
Yea to be clear I'm not trying to skimp on the cost of the FFL or undermine the work/risk they do take on, but I am getting increasingly frustrated with how the local gunshops here are trying to operate.

I stopped by another local outfit here earlier today to chat to them. Their stance on FFLs is:
If the gun is in stock (if they or one of the guys they deal with locally has it in inventory) the FFL is 10% of the cost of the gun OR
if they don't have it in stock, $40.

As it happens some increasingly desperate calls from their suppliers and local affiliates turned up stock on one, for $920, a clean $200 over what Buds would charge.

So to use this other LGS for an FFL would be ~72 for the transfer (10% of the $720 cost Buds has listed) and again the subtext here is that this is an additional "tax" just because they can get the gun for cheaper.

Again, I know there is work and risk associated with performing an FFL, but I can't help but feel like the local guys here, incl. Gander Mountain are deliberately making things as expensive or convoluted as possible so that the higher price alternative seems worth it for the lack of hassle. And it's a frustrating feeling.
 
"...deliberately making things as expensive or convoluted as possible so that the higher price alternative seems worth it for the lack of hassle. And it's a frustrating feeling..."

Yeah... but it's just business... so when that "frustrating feeling" comes for me, I JUST SAY NO... and go the cheaper route with a smile on my face. It's just business... It's a sort of game... always has been...
 
I may be missing a point here... but it seems like the thing to do is buy the rifle from Buds and pay your local guy the $40 for the transfer fee..... you just spent $40 local and supported the local economy that much....
 
blume357 I think that's the way I'm leaning.

What a difference a day makes. At the start of the day I was pondering the moral side of going to buds after this place had highlighted them when discussing FFLs but they are still the cheapest FFL around.

I can't afford to buy locally at the marked up rates, and so I've got no choice but to go via buds. And $40 (vs $25 for other places) at this one local place seems to be as good as it gets.

I do have one other avenue I want to chase up on tomorrow... one of the ranges in town (indoor hand gun only place) sells their weapons used, so the guy there may do a transfer and possibly without the chip on his shoulder since his primary income revolves around handguns, not rifles, and rangetime/ammo, not weapon sales. If he doesn't do transfers then I'm off to the first local place to get the ball rolling on an FFL.

And if they do it without too much grief I'll pick up some ammo from them too.
 
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