"Modified" Handguns a Big NO-NO for CC?

Status
Not open for further replies.
F

flyboy015

New member
Earlier this morning I was talking with a coworker about my change of heart in what pistol I will buy next- initially, it was a bare-bones full-size pistol, in 9mm, for a scant $400. For $250 more, I can get the top-level model, which is the same base pistol with an FDE finish, improved flat-face trigger, flared mag well and tactical magazine (has the funky smooth metal extension) as well as an optics plate and a threaded barrel, complete with thread protector.

His immediate response was "You can't carry that."

To which I said, "Well I plan to keep carrying my current compact pistol, but why not?"

He claimed that because it was modified - in his mind, the upgraded trigger and suppressor-ready threaded barrel make the gun "modified", even though these are factory features, advertised on the manufacturer's website- it could cause me great legal trouble in the event I had to use it to save my life or a family member's.

Now, I can't imagine carrying this (slightly) larger pistol in an IWB holster in the upcoming summer months day after day, but I might eventually want to pack it depending on the circumstances.

My coworker claims to have taken several CCW classes, and previously told me that he always urges people not to carry "modified guns" because if you must use them in a justifiable situation and are called into court, a DA or other entity could claim that you personally selected upgraded or modified accessories or features to make the gun more lethal, or to "make killing someone easier", in a manner of speaking.

Now I'm just plain curious what everyone else thinks. In my mind, the fact that these are all factory mods simply means it's a stock pistol? Purchased just as-is? I could see myself making the argument that I originally bought this pistol for target/sport shooting, but it makes an excellent defense pistol as well, and I carry it on occasion...if you take the responsibility to carry, shouldn't you carry a dependable, capable handgun? I currently log training with my compact pistol mainly for the purpose of tracking my improvement- but also for showing just how often I train with it, in case I need to prove my justifiable use of deadly force to someone someday. I plan on keeping the same log of training with this full-size pistol as well...

FWIW, we live and work in central Pennsylvania, NOT California (LOL)
 
Well, I suppose there are a lot of "it depends" involved here. I suppose it depends on the specifics of the situation, the attitudes of the Police/DA, the quality of your attorney and the jury. In reality it should not matter, but if you were charged the DA could use this to paint you as a gun nut looking for a fight instead of a crime victim defending themselves.
 
Modified can mean a lot of things. All my carry revolvers have trigger jobs which makes them more accurate in my hands. Are they "modified", probably but no more than one fired a hundred thousand times. Is a painted front sight "modified"? Yes but that too makes me shoot it more accurately which is exactly why I did paint it in the first place. The ability to modify a gun to permit the owner to place shots more accurately is defensible.
On the other hand, a very tactical sort of weapon with rails, colors, slogans, threaded barrels , etc. may influence a jury in a negative manner.
I try to have my carry guns look as plain as can be, to the point of many times it just is a snubbie in a leather holster.
Remember, in a shooting situation you will lose your gun to the police for a very long time.
 
We have discussed this endlessly, no offense, with rather expert opinions.

Might be a good idea to search on it.

While reloads are a different topic, in our discussion of such, we have touched on the principles involved in a jury trial.

https://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=452627

If anyone says, "If it is a good shoot..." - you announce your ignorance of the process as only the decisions of the state to prosecute and the decision of jury says it is a good shoot or not. There is no way to know before hand. The issue is to minimize risk if you do go to trial.
 
Glenn,

Thank you for posting the article. I read it in almost its entirety, and much of it is just as I would expect- an AR-15 is far more menacing in appearance to most people than a Ruger Mini-14, even though both are very capable semi-automatic platforms.

I think to add a bit to the OP just for the sake of discussion, having a modified trigger (for the purpose of gaining accuracy) could also be argued as an increased margin of safety- hitting a perpetrator in a crowded environment, and not missing his left shoulder by a hair and killing the eight year old boy some fifty yards behind them.

I really think I ponder too much about the ramifications of Concealed Carry Permit holders missing their target in a defensive situation and striking a perfectly innocent person- and this is also why I carry that mean JHP man-killin' (defensive) ammo. I've had a lot of friends and acquaintances who carry FMJ (round nose) rounds...
 
Odds are good that if you are ever in court after a SD shoot,you won't get to explain why you have an action job. Its doubtful anyone will hear your opinion.

What testimony or evidence is presented is not under your control.

Odds are if the prosecutor wants the testimony of an expert firearms witness,the state will bring one.

If you want a professional firearms expert to testify on your behalf...you will pay.

Just my no-cost opinion,and worth every penny, a multi-thousand dollar custom Wilson or Night Hawk or S+W Custom shop handgun is not necessarily a problem.

A 2 1/2 lb trigger,or a smiley face on the barrel bushing,or Dremel tracks might be.
 
Last edited:
FYI folks - experts on firearms usage can run from $1k to $10K per day. Now some national trainers will appear for you if you are one of their students and you pay expenses. Something to think about if you gratuitous or silly cosmetic decorations on a firearm.
 
While I have no expertise, I would avoid carrying anything with skulls, “smile, wait for flash”, Saint, crosses, crusaders, predator names, predator sounding names, claws, hooks talons, fangs, prayers, religious verses, punisher logos and any other violent and/or pop culture iconography on them.
As said above, a custom made firearm from a well regarded firearms might be ok. A legit self defense shooting is going to be bad enough on its own
 
Depends on the modifications.....ultra light weight triggers and deactivated safeties are definite no nos. Better sights, grips that fit your hand better, various aftermarket finishes, etc are fine.
 
That settles it. I'm going to buy one of those pink monstrosities with the bunny ears for the rear sight as my carry piece.

And only Winchester White ammo bought from Walmart. Would that be WWW?
 
A good shoot is a good shoot. A bad shoot is a bad shoot. The gun is just a tool. But, then again, I'm not carrying anything that looks like some sort of holloween toy.
 
Snuffy,I'm not sure about something...maybe you could explain it to me...

Assuming there is a deceased person,and you claim self defense,

Who determines if it is,as you say,a "Good shoot" or a "Bad Shoot"?

How is that done?
 
I recall giving reference to our set of threads that debunk the good shoot cow manure cliche. If that is what you have to contribute, just don’t as it displays ignorance of the issues. Since the appropriate references and intelligent analyses have been given I will spare us a replay of nonsense.
Closed.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top