I'm wondering how difficult it would be to make a modern trench gun using an inexpensive 12-gauge as a base. I'm sure I can scrounge up a hand-guard and even a bayonet adaptor. I'm really interested in keeping the trigger engaged at all times so it can be fan fired, but I don't think any modern shotguns have this feature. Has anyone attempted this before?
Modern Trench Gun?
- Thread starter Cosmoline
- Start date
Nightcrawler
New member
fan firing...
...I've heard, but cannot prove, that you can do that with the Norinco shotguns, which I believe are copies of the Ithaca 37. However, they have a pump lock on the trigger loop that requires operation before you can operate the pump to chamber the first round. After that, it's like any other pump shotgun.
Plus, the Norinco shotguns are cheap. My local dealer has one, an 18" barrel, 5+1 capacity, bead sight, for $149.00, brand new. Not bad for the money.
...I've heard, but cannot prove, that you can do that with the Norinco shotguns, which I believe are copies of the Ithaca 37. However, they have a pump lock on the trigger loop that requires operation before you can operate the pump to chamber the first round. After that, it's like any other pump shotgun.
Plus, the Norinco shotguns are cheap. My local dealer has one, an 18" barrel, 5+1 capacity, bead sight, for $149.00, brand new. Not bad for the money.
Many of the older pump guns don't have disconnectors. Older Ithaca 37s and Stevens 520s among others. The newer 37s have a disconnector. The disconnector was put in as a safety measure. And yes, the Norinco has a disconnector.
Your best bet would be to find an older Ithaca at a show and go from there as there are no aftermarket accessories for most of the older guns out there. At least there are a few accessories for the 37, though not many.
Your best bet would be to find an older Ithaca at a show and go from there as there are no aftermarket accessories for most of the older guns out there. At least there are a few accessories for the 37, though not many.
Older 37s can be fanfired. Whether this is an advantage or a hazard is a matter of viewpoint.Or, sometimes a situational thing.
Considering the rate of fire a trained and cool hand can achieve on a shotgun not equipped for fan firing, I regard this as one of those things more important in theory than practicality.
However, it's your time, money and butt on the line. If I HAD to have a trench broom, I'd find a decent Model 97 or 12 with a riot bbl and go from there.
Or perhaps, check out the Mossy 590, it already has the bayonet mount, I believe...
Considering the rate of fire a trained and cool hand can achieve on a shotgun not equipped for fan firing, I regard this as one of those things more important in theory than practicality.
However, it's your time, money and butt on the line. If I HAD to have a trench broom, I'd find a decent Model 97 or 12 with a riot bbl and go from there.
Or perhaps, check out the Mossy 590, it already has the bayonet mount, I believe...
I found a Norinco pump today which is apparently based on the Winchester '97, with an external hammer. It did not have a disconnector, but nevertheless it sucked big time. Very rough action, and it felt like it was about to come apart in my hands. Now I'm on the hunt for an old military Ithaca, like the one Corporal Hicks used in Aliens. I'll keep an eye out for Stevens, as well.
BTW, my project is partly just for fun, but I'm also interested in building a better bear gun. If the estimated rate of fire on those old trench guns is correct, one would be extremely useful in a pinch. I'm also trying to purge my inventory of modern safety systems (apart from the transfer safety bar, because I like to carry six). It started when I purchased an old Marlin .30/30 with no external safeties. Suffice it to say I promptly sold off my modern '94 in disgust. I'm even thinking of dumping my modern Marlin 1895G, but I wouldn't trust an old gun with hot .45/70 bear loads. Thus the idea for the trench gun as a replacement. The 12 gauge will work fine, esp when loaded in a weapon that can fan fire.
BTW, my project is partly just for fun, but I'm also interested in building a better bear gun. If the estimated rate of fire on those old trench guns is correct, one would be extremely useful in a pinch. I'm also trying to purge my inventory of modern safety systems (apart from the transfer safety bar, because I like to carry six). It started when I purchased an old Marlin .30/30 with no external safeties. Suffice it to say I promptly sold off my modern '94 in disgust. I'm even thinking of dumping my modern Marlin 1895G, but I wouldn't trust an old gun with hot .45/70 bear loads. Thus the idea for the trench gun as a replacement. The 12 gauge will work fine, esp when loaded in a weapon that can fan fire.
J
Jeff, CA
Guest
Better lean into it
I had the opportunity to try a vintage '97 at the range this last weekend for the first time. This particular specimen had been made into a pseudo-trench gun with scrounged heat shield and bayonet lug. I just had to try the fan fire, but with no trenches or Kaiser's troops handy, I had to settle for a pair of clay birds
. I have no excuse for missing #1, but #2, 3 & 4 were a different story. Having to think about what I was doing (it's really unnatural to deliberately not reset the trigger) was pretty distracting, plus it seemed like the pumping motion was disturbing the sight picture. You'd have to have the sights on target before you closed the action, and somehow keep them there through the closing stroke. All in all, I think I'm just as fast, and more accurate, with the Mossberg. That's my experience, anyway.
However, for robustness and workmanship, there's no comparison. That '97 will probably still be slam-firing clay birds and everything else after the Mossberg is reduced to coke cans. Get a '97.
And I hear you on the safety feature issue, too. The first thing I did when I brought my new car home was disconnect the starter lockout on the clutch, and the seatbelt chime (I use 'em; that's why I don't need the chime).
I had the opportunity to try a vintage '97 at the range this last weekend for the first time. This particular specimen had been made into a pseudo-trench gun with scrounged heat shield and bayonet lug. I just had to try the fan fire, but with no trenches or Kaiser's troops handy, I had to settle for a pair of clay birds
. I have no excuse for missing #1, but #2, 3 & 4 were a different story. Having to think about what I was doing (it's really unnatural to deliberately not reset the trigger) was pretty distracting, plus it seemed like the pumping motion was disturbing the sight picture. You'd have to have the sights on target before you closed the action, and somehow keep them there through the closing stroke. All in all, I think I'm just as fast, and more accurate, with the Mossberg. That's my experience, anyway.However, for robustness and workmanship, there's no comparison. That '97 will probably still be slam-firing clay birds and everything else after the Mossberg is reduced to coke cans. Get a '97.
And I hear you on the safety feature issue, too. The first thing I did when I brought my new car home was disconnect the starter lockout on the clutch, and the seatbelt chime (I use 'em; that's why I don't need the chime).