Modern Muzzleloader sabot questions...

M

Magnum Wheel Man

New member
I think I'm a 1in 20 twist...

I already have lots lots of 45 & 44 caliber bullets... they never list the bullet diameter of the 45's, & I've not cross referenced the weights, are these typically .451 pistol bullets, or .458 rifle bullets...

how do the thicker sabots using heavy 44 bullets work, with improved section density & balistic coeffcients weight for weight, the 44 bullets aught to work well on game... maybe there is too much plastic there & they don't fly well ???

any help with suggestions for those that buy the plastic sabots & use their own bullets ???
 
I can't say that I've ever heard about any real differences between the sabots based on caliber at all, but only that every sabot will fit & shoot differently from any gun.
The currently made sabots could have improved plastics, size and design over the older generation of sabots from years ago when some may have been inferior.
Using .44 magnum bullets seemed to be more popular back then relative to the Hornady .44 XTP bullets that Thompson Center and other companies were selling with sabots.
It now seems that .451 - .452 bullets are more popular. Maybe that's because the .451 bullets are slightly heavier to compensate for the sectional density. Or because there's a greater variety of styles and diameters of .451 sabots made by outfits like MMP.
Since .45 bullets are more popular, many people tend to stick with their favorite sabots that they have range tested for good fit and performance.
I wouldn't be too concerned about performance differences using any sabot that's designed for the right diameter bullet. It still comes down to testing and working up a load. and not because of the amount of plastic or any inherant flaws.
It's mostly because of there being a lesser variety of .44 sabot diameters made to fine tune how they fit in an individual's bore. :)

For instance, look at Speer Gold Dots.
In .44, the hollow points are available up to 240grains and the soft point up to 270 grains.
While in .45 caliber, the hollow points are available up to 250 grains but not in any heavier soft points.
Maybe folks have a perception that hollow points offer better expansion when fired from muzzle loaders.

http://www.speer-bullets.com/ballistics/bullets.aspx
 
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For the .50, your Sabots are rated either for 50/44 or 50/45 and even lists the Pistol Bullet diameter on the packaging. With the right combination you will get a good seal. The only time you will have a problems, is to fit a .45 into a 50/44 sabot. I shoot the XTP and regular alloy lead.


Be Safe !!!
 
how do the thicker sabots using heavy 44 bullets work, with improved section density & balistic coeffcients weight for weight, the 44 bullets aught to work well on game
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They do perform very well on game. For ten years I have used the 240 grain .430 XTP bullet to kill over 20 deer and dozens of wild hogs. Some of those hogs went over 300 pounds on the hoof. Most of my shots on deer and hogs with the 240 grain .430 bullet have been bang flops: I pick my shots very carefully and have never lost an animal that was hit with that bullet. The sabot that I have used the most is a short black one that is no longer available. In my CVA guns the Harvester Easy Load sabot works very well.

Used to use very heavy loads: 130-150 grains of granular Pyrodex. Found out those heavy loads were not needed on deer and hogs. Settled on 100 grains of Pyrodex RS or two 50 grain Pyrodex pellets. Am now using 100 grains of Goex 3F Pinnacle with the .430 bullet.
 
Yep, I think some of the sabots were getting damaged by pushing them too hard. What kind of groups do you guys get at 100 yards? I recently got a CVA 209 Buckhorn magnum and so far just sighted it in and took a few shots. At 100 yards I was getting about 2 inch groups off sand bags with a 4X fixed scope. I'm told you can get a lot better groups but to be honest I was blown away by the 2" groups at 100. I had no idea a muzzle loader could give that good a level of accuracy. It's my hope if I really spend some time I can get MOA groups at 100 yards. I might just go ahead and use the MZLDR during the regular gun season. I'm a pretty happy camper right now::cool:
 
Yes they make sabots for .430(44 cal) & .452(45 cal) bullets, you have to get the correct sabot for the bullet you plan. The package or web info should say. There are slight variations, as in the differences between jacketed vrs lead offerings in any cal. Another factor is M-L bores are not as standardized as most centerfires, for this reason any rifle can have preferences. I use both, usually 45 for hunting.
 
Yep, I think some of the sabots were getting damaged by pushing them too hard.
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By that you mean loading too hot and that is true, especially on the cheaper ones. I have pretty much settled with Hornady "Black" as they seem to stand up. Whenever possible, I try to analyze sabots and patches to see how they are printing. The cheaper sabots look pretty rough and will foul your bore sooner as well.



Be Safe !!!
 
Pure lead 405gr sized .001 over bore dia. will out shoot any pistol bullet in a sabot any day.Better accuracy and terminal performance at longer ranges. No saboted bullet will shoot better than good old Hornady Great Plains Bullets. Buy a Lee bullet sizing die(<$20.00) to fit your bore then buy .458 bullets of your choice and resize to .452 just the right fit.I have shot up to 540gr bullets resized to .452 and 100gr of Swiss 1.5 out of a T/C Renegade and a 1:18 twist barrel.Absolute Elk medicine, lighter bullets and smaller powder charges will work as well at close distances(200yds).The whole sabot thing is just a way for bullet makers to sell more pistol bullets.Shoot rifle bullets from your rifle!:rolleyes:
 
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