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Kenneth L. Walters

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I've just about stopped coming to the Firing Line because I'm sick and tired of the S&W bashing that goes on. Try to ask or answer a legitimate question about these guns and you have to listen to endless complaints about the company's political decisions. I'm not happy with what S&W did but this is not the place for it.

The moderators have indicated that they would only allow one or two such posts per topic. Truth is though that you allow far more than that.

If your goal is to stop people who are interested in Smith's from coming here you are right on target. What good that will do is beyond my comprehension.

You should put a stop to these posts! Set up a separate sight if you must but stop this stuff. Limiting S&W bashing to one or two posts per thread is something you give lip service to but don't do. You are doing this site a disservice.

I would hope that you would either kill these posts altogether, move them elsewhere or resign and get someone who will.
 
I'm sorry, but I come here for information and opinions. I may not agree with those who post 'glocks rule' or 'the only real handgun is a 1911', but if I don't like it, I ignore their posts. There's an ignore feature on the board for just such occassions.

I would be more upset if TFL came up with a policy that restricted people from stating their opinion on a subject. Instead of being exposed to different opinions and being able to form my own based on what I've learned, I would only read what was approved by TFL or some moderators. That would go against everything I admire about this forum.

If everyone can behave like adults and not resort to personal attacks, topics should be able to go where the members take them, as long as they stay related to firearms. What S&W did IS related to firearms. I also think the rule of '2 anti S&W comments per thread' is wrong. Where do I place my vote to have that lifted?

If there was a policy that certain firearms related topics were subject to special restrictions because they might offend the sensibilities of some members, I'd probably be inclined to stop visiting. Because instead of getting real opinions and facts, I'd just just get what the moderators think I should be able to read.
 
Don't like it?

Don't read the S&W threads.

Quite frankly, you don't have to "listen" to anything.

You can simply scroll past those threads that offend you.

Simple action on your part, really.
 
I'm surprised at you, Mal.

This one flamed WAY out of control after you posted your admonition on November 5...

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=86834&pagenumber=2

And this one... It's just rife with mentions of "pre" vs "post" agreement...

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=88052


And my oh my... Some of us were actually crass enough to post date of manufacture information in this thread. I guess that, by extension, is an obtuse slam at S&W because no recently manufactured guns were dated?

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=87782

This one positively drips with information about... Guns. No politics at all. How very, very sad...

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=88123


Here's a thread with nothing but praise. How the hell did this get in here?

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=85825

AH HA! DANGER DANGER WILL ROBINSON!

The following thread has been determined by the Web Chapter of the Smith & Wesson Anti-Defamation League of Gunowners with their Heads 'Twixt Their Buns to contain a mild rebuke of Smith & Wesson's political agreement with the Clinton Administration.

As such, extreme caution is urged while viewing this thread. Thank you -- WCS&WADLGHTTB

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=88175
 
I scanned the Revolver Forum quickly just now. The only thread I saw that has negative feedback concerning Smiths is the thread titled;

"Smith and Wesson Performance Center Hits a New Low"

Is that the thread that has made you so angry? If it is, you should aknowledge that there are quite a few posts saying that the quality of Smiths has slipped, and quite a few posts that state that it has not. It is a debate, not a bash. The exchange of opinion and information is what boards such as this are for. Not a One Brand Love Fest.

If that is not the source of your ire, please enlighten us.

And please quit saying "This is not the place", unless you are willing to go to "the place" to dicuss your opinion regarding the political status of S&W. I started a thread in General Discussion after the last time you posted your contempt for opposing views on the merits of purchasing from this company. I even mentioned your name. Didn't see you stop by to voice an opinion on that thread. I think you just want to silence anyone who does not agree with you.
 
"The quality of *&*'s guns has slipped"

The above statement contains no political content, other than my annoying use of asterisks. It is a purely technical, hardware statement. If you don't believe me, compare my roomie's 28-2, circa 1970 to his 25-2 of 1980 to my 625-4 of 1994 to a current production 625-7. Look at the fit and finish, compare the feel of the lockwork, I'll take the Pepsi challenge on this one any day. The level of hand fitting and finishing on the "budget" model 28-2 from 1970 exceeds that of most Performance Center guns today. This isn't "bashing", it's an observation of something I've seen, and I'd report it if the company was co-owned by George Washington and John Wayne and gave guns away free to every Boy Scout in America. (I also think Colt's quality has tanked relative to guns made in the early '70's and before, and don't get me started comparing Clackamus Kimbers to Yonkers ones. Oooh, the politics! :rolleyes: )
 
I used to proudly sell S&W, not no mo. Either the decline in quality or their political stance would be enough to make me stop selling them.

If somebody wants to purchase an overpriced product, that is their business. If somebody wants to purchase an over priced product AND by doing so directly contribute to those who would deny our freedom to own, sell or even look at our choice of guns; I will attempt to enlighten and discourage them.

I gladly offer my meager knowledge of S&W products to any who ask. I think highly of most of their products produced in their first 130 or so years. Even before the agreement, the product had declined in quality whilst catering to those who had to have the latest in gewgawery whether or not it made sense from a practicle standpoint.

Instead of being a rarity, rough stars, raspy triggers, irregular timing, unpolished chambers, asymetrical cones etc etc have become commonplace.

So sad.

Sam
 
Personally, I don't think the new S&W can be bad-mouthed often enough... In fact, I think, in a sense of fair-play and balance, it should be a rule that every thread on new S&Ws contain at least two posts slamming them... :D

I'm still interested and like S&W wheel guns. I just limit my likes and interest to those made before the scurvy 'mals in charge went to bed with the Klintonistas to save themselves some ching.

They're gettin' just exactly what they deserve... and, if you were honest with yourself, you'd know it!

Oh... and tell SmithNut his "son" says "Send more money!" :D
 
Didn't we all agree to share space in the sand box?
Click to expand...

Yes, we did. :)

Other than this post, I have:

A) Sung the praises of my 629 in one thread.

B) Called my PC-13 and 625 "if not the best guns I own, then close enough to not be worth arguing about" in another thread.

C) Started a thread about how happy I was to have found a copy of the second edition of Supica and Nahas' Standard Catalog so soon.

D) Used the book to answer several members questions about the manufacturing dates of their guns in yet another thread.

E) Discussed long-range handgunning with my scoped 586 in yet another thread.

And discussed the boycott absolutely nowhere, except threads like this one, or in threads where someone posts something as patently ridiculous as to state that I don't like *&* handguns.

If that were the case, could you explain why this house, which contains 5 Glocks, 5 Rugers and 5 Berettas, contains as many handguns from *&* as those three manufacturers combined????????

When I state that I'm very happy with my new Taurus 731UL and state that it compares very favorably to any of the current J-frames I had in stock in our store at the time (although it doesn't hold a candle to either of the gemlike vintage J-frames at home), that somehow gets twisted into something boycott related, rather than a simple technical observation.

When I say that the quality coming out of Springfield seems to be declining, that somehow gets twisted into something boycott-related, even though I've been saying that for years before there was a boycott!!!!

Methinks some folks protest entirely too darn much... :rolleyes:

(P.S. Apparently, Mike Irwin, lendringser and myself are three notorious haters of *&*. May I direct your attention to the Name Your Top 10 Favorite Handguns thread where, between us 3 "*&* bashers", eleven of our 30 handgun choices are from that company.)
 
Sorry Tamara. This two dimensional box sometimes makes it difficult to express myself. That was not what I was referring to. The topic itself of "bashing" is getting stale. Everyone here (except maybe me :) ) is an adult. Mel set the rules of engagement on this issue and its time to move beyond this issue. Anyone reading any of these threads can either hit the back button or dish out their argument. Get in their two cents and move on.

That anyone feels that this forum is not suitable for certain discussions. That's their own judgment call. I make that call at times too, so I respect that.

And yes, your post do make you worthy of a Smith & Wesson compatriot. :D

Robert
 
Mike Irwin: Wonderful post above . . . still "laughing out loud".

Mal and other Moderators: I always try to be judicious in my posts. I do not recall, however, any admonition against expressing our contempt for Smith's cowardly political settlement. Personally, the only time I even mention it is in the far larger context of recommending revolvers (usually to a "newbie" as a first handgun, and then representing <5% of the posted content).

Mr. Walters: With respect, I have not noticed this trend becoming either unseemly or overly prevalent. As others have stated, it is easy for you to ignore posts -- or entire threads -- you dislike. Further, since the essence of TFL is the exchange of legitimate firearms-related information, I fail to see how indications of individual's disdain for S&W are irrelevant or generally objectionable.
 
If ya'll were really serious about a boycott against Smith and Wesson, you wouldn't buy pre-agreement weapons either.

Just an observation...........

H
 
Folks, this thread is not to be used to either praise or bash Smith & Wesson or their handguns.

Mr. Walters made an accusation and I would like to see some examples of what he has seen that we haven't. Nothing else. Apparently he hasn't returned yet to deliver those examples so I will leave this thread open for a while longer. This really doesn't belong in the Revolver Forum, but it shall remain here so he can find it easily.

I do want to add that all members of TFL Staff serve at the pleasure of Rich Lucibella and not at the pleasure of Kenneth L. Walters. I would sincerely appreciate it if you would take all suggestions as to staffing changes either to email or PM to Rich or to any member of Staff. In the future, all other threads concerning TFL belong in the Suggestions, Questions and Feedback Forum.


RWK - I placed the admonition in a few threads that were getting into the bashing process. The following thread, Mr. Walters first suggestion that we control the bashing, contains a copy of that admonition: http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=87132

To sum it up, you are welcome to discuss the *&* agreement or the *&* Company itself all you wish on TFL in the General Discussion Forum or in the L&P Forum, but not here in the forums where the handguns are discussed.
 
Harrison,

Go search on that particular topic. You'll find that that's a concept that has been thoroughly destroyed as a "false showing" in several message threads.

It's a cute concept, but in reality, it does absolutely nothing to further the cause of the boycott.
 
Opinions are like butts!

Everyone has one and some of them stink! If a poster says something about S&W and you (do/don't) like it. Skip over that post. It's not hard to do. Move on! Read a book! Take a walk! Anyone's opinion is okay with me. If I don't like it or disagree with it. That's okay too. Nothing worth a flame war here that I can see.:(
 
FWIW, as a newbie I agree withe the thread originator. If I'm looking for an opinion on the quality, suitability, etc, of a particular S&W product I'm not really looking for your political opinion, just the facts please. S&W, Colt, Ruger and even the NRA have all done things in recent years that I don't particularly approve of but I think the shooting community is better off to support their continued existence than to sacrifice them , one at a time, for their real or imagined political sins.
 
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