Model 70 (Pre 64) safety question

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Firstly: I have check other threads associated to this issue and not seeing this specific issue. or at least not thinking I am.

With safety all the way back, I can pull the trigger and it comes off the sear. When I push the safety to the halfway position, the sear engages the the trigger. Further investigation shows that when the safety is pushed from the back position, it actually moves the sear back (which allows the trigger to fall back into place), and when moved from the center position to the back position, the sear moves forward again; which of course allows the trigger to come off the sear when pulled). Should this movement be taking place. If so, how and what needs adjusted to remedy the situation. This is my favorite hunting gun but I cant use it since it fired one time when I took the safety off. Note that I inherited the rifle from my uncle and unfamiliar with the overall history of the rifle and if it was ever shot enough to cause wear issues. Per serial numbers is circa 1950.

Thanks!
 
Get it to a Gunsmith, now.
A Model 70 safety, heck, no safety should fire when being switched off.
I wouldn't use it either.
It could be something simple, like fossilized lube. But either way get it fixed and enjoy it.
 
simple

My limited understanding of the early Win M70 trigger and from pics of same leads me to believe the M70 trigger and safety are simple, uncomplicated mechanism's. I would think somebody familiar with them, like a good 'smith, should be able to correct your problem fairly easily.

Good luck with it, we'd sure like to hear a follow up report
 
My 70 is not an early model though I have worked on one before years ago. My recollection is the trigger and safety system is rather simple and straight-forward; probably just a matter of some screws and/or nuts loose and need readjusting. Scorch would probably know for certain. If it's a 3 screw receiver (probably) it's also possible the action has drifted out of alignment with the stock.
 
The early M70 safety and trigger designs are simple and straightforward

I'd have to dig up mine and check (which I'm not going to do at this time ;)) but it is entirely common for rifles of that era to have the safety physically cam the striker off the sear (trigger) when put on "safe".

it fired one time when I took the safety off
Click to expand...

From this statement I take it you mean it fired when the safety moved from the middle (safe) position to the forward (off) position, AND that there was NO POSSIBILITY you were pulling the trigger at the time.

The possible reasons this can happen are;
1) worn/broken parts
2) improperly operating parts (stuck/sticking)
3) improperly adjusted parts (incorrect/insufficient engagement)

Look at the parts involved, look for any obvious wear, rounded edges where they should be square, etc.

Check for any crud, old oil that has gotten "stiff" or any debris that could be interfering with the smooth, free movement of parts. You'd be surprised at what a broken bit of pine needle can do in a trigger mechanism...etc...

Lastly, look at the trigger/sear engagement AREA. The M70 trigger is adjustable, via some screws and lock nuts. It is possible to adjust the sear engagement down too much to reliably stay cocked. The previous owner MAY have adjusted it down right to the edge of that point, looking for a better trigger pull....it's also possible that the rifle may have "adjusted" itself to that point, if the trigger adjustment is not properly locked into place.

A good cleaning of the mechanism might be all that is needed to fix the issue. A simple adjustment of the (clean) mechanism might be all that is needed to fix the issue.

IF you have worn or broken parts (or don't feel competent to clean or adjust the mechanism), THEN its time to see a gunsmith. (recommend finding an actual gunsmith, not just a guy who only assembles ARs from parts kits and calls themselves a gunsmith :rolleyes:)

Good Luck with your issue. I hope its just something simple like sticking or misadjusted parts.
 
Thanks for the feedback everybody. I cleaned the action out very well as part of trying to resolve the issue. The trigger has one adjustment screw with the nuts. I tried adjusting, as seen in other threads and uTube, but still no resolution. I did find a U-Tube that looked like the exact issue I had, being the striker moves forward when going from middle position to the rear position; which as mentioned allows the trigger to come of the sear and not reengage. He mentioned that the safety needed to be adjusted to remove the space between the catch on the bottom of the safety (on the bolt) and the rear of the sear. The video did not say how to make this adjustment. If I begin disassembling the rear of the bolt (safety area) does anybody know how to so this, or, if there are any booby traps like shooting springs to be aware of?

that the play in the safety can be adjusted. It did not say how to make the adjustment. Any help on how to do that would be appreciated as well.
 
The model 70 trigger is quite simple and safe, provided you adhere to certain standard usage practices and keep the trigger free/clean enough to snap back to home position, if pulled.

The safety is all in the bolt. It lifts the cocking piece off the cocking sear. The mating needs to be well fitted. Too far one way, the safety cannot be engaged. Too far the other way, the safety does not fully lift off the cocking sear. This means the safety works, but if the trigger is pulled when “on safe”, the cocking piece moves too far and holds the cocking sear in the fired position….so the firing pin falls forward when the safety is released. Not sure if it will fire the round, but certainly that is a concern.

So, best practices are certainly to have parts fitted by someone who knows the mechanism and understands the results of their actions.

Then, I think every gun should be safety checked regularly…perhaps daily before loading for use. This is key on the m70 because with grit or something in a lighter trigger, the trigger may lose its ability to move back to the position where the sear holds it when the safety is released.

Additionally, it is a good idea to get in the habit of safety off after a shooter is in position…with non-shooters behind them. These things should be like me reminding you to be “quiet in church”, but then there are the Remington owners who shot people due to poor safety practices…..and then sued Remington to absolve themselves of blame.

A m70 user or gunsmith should consider what pull weight they want with a grain of salt. Perhaps 3lb is an ideal weight to balance positive trigger return with good feel in the field. I see people tuning below 1lb, but trigger return force must be close to nil. Maybe a lighter sear spring could help, but that at some point compromises safety too. Mine was adjusted to 1.5lbs and tested safe in a clean environment…..I couldn’t accept that and went to a Timney. The difference between a safe 1.5lb m70 trigger and one that may hang up is too close for me.

Winchester went with a 3 lever trigger to improve this and owners of old guns should consider this too if going below 3lbs. Protects against dust intrusion and provides snappy function at lower weights.
 
Thanks Nathan--you know the inner workings of the bolt much better than I do--I'm not positive--but did the older Model 70's have the same safety settings that the newer ones do (2 or 3)? I'm wondering if positioning of the safety setting upon reassemble may have caused the firing pin release. I ended up putting a timney in my 70 as well BTW.
 
I believe the pre64 and post64/pre-moa/classic models were quite similar in function, but I’m not sure if parts interchange.

I think 3 position safety carried from pre to post.
 
I haven't stripped mine yet, but I believe the safety lever needs to be in the middle position and the firing pin properly positioned to "mate" them properly on reassemble, though I don't know if that could result in the inadvertent release of the pin with safety lever fully engaged.
 
Well, in my limited experience, the bolt can be put back in with the safety in any position and engage the cocking sear correctly.

To remove the firing pin, I put in position 2, remove the bolt and unscrew. Whallah ready to clean! Yes, it has to be on position 2 or you are fighting the spring!
 
I haven't shot my 70 much, maybe I did strip the bolt and just don't remember, I only have one of them and a dozen or two Savage bolts, it becomes a blur as I get older, but a good reminder they should all be regularly checked. Thanks
 
The Model 70 is a cock on opening action. Like the Mauser 98 and most other modern bolt actions since then.

The bolt is cocked when it is opened, so it is always cocked when you remove the bolt from the action. And, it needs to be cocked to be put back in.

You can remove and reinstall the bolt in the action with the safety "OFF" or "ON", but you cannot do so with the safety in the 3rd position (ON & LOCKED)
 
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