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Model 36 Chief's Special
- Thread starter .284
- Start date
You will find mixed thoughts on using +P ammunition in a Model 36 and many other J Frame all steel size revolvers. It will probably handle more rounds of +P than your hand.
Many believe a steady diet or a lot of rounds of +P in these small revolvers will eventually cause problems with the gun. I think you will be fine using standard loads for practice/general shooting and reserve any +P for concealed carry or defensive purposes.
Many believe a steady diet or a lot of rounds of +P in these small revolvers will eventually cause problems with the gun. I think you will be fine using standard loads for practice/general shooting and reserve any +P for concealed carry or defensive purposes.
Also, can I shoot mild +P loads in it.
Oh Boy! A new oxymoron!
If your gun will handle the original 38 special loadings it will handle the relativity weaker +P loads.
This is the best write up you will ever see on +P 38 loads. And the author is a well respected poster here.
https://shootingwithhobie.blogspot.com/2009/01/p-phenomenon-by-saxonpig.html
riverrat38
New member
If you want more power without going to plus pee, try Buffalo Bores 158 gr LSWCHP standard load. It is a more powerful non plus pee cartridge. Similar to Remington's plus pee version of the same bullet, but at standard pressure. How they do this, they won't say. They also have more powerful standard pressure 125 gr JHP loads. And, a more powerful 150 gr cast wad cutter. Really!
Best,
Rick
Best,
Rick
Mainstream +P is not loaded to excessive pressures. Total MYTH that it it's some kind of hot load. It's a 125 at 925 for crying out loud. In my book a mild target load.
BTW-If it has a model number stamped on it then it dates from 1958 or later.
http://shootingwithhobie.blogspot.com/2009/01/p-phenomenon-by-saxonpig.html
BTW-If it has a model number stamped on it then it dates from 1958 or later.
http://shootingwithhobie.blogspot.com/2009/01/p-phenomenon-by-saxonpig.html
.248, you should be just fine using any +P 38 special round in your model 36. Your hand will were out before the gun does.
If you are really worried about using +P ammo, at the range shoot 90% standard ammo, and finish with your +P ammo. Then carry the +P ammo for self-defense.
If you are really worried about using +P ammo, at the range shoot 90% standard ammo, and finish with your +P ammo. Then carry the +P ammo for self-defense.
Thanks for the information, it's appreciated. I will be using the gun for home defense only and I'm not worried about my hand. I have a 629 44 mag that I hunt with and that gets a steady diet of hot hand loads. I'm wanting to load some +P's most likely with just the starting load. I am going to use 125gr or 140gr Sierra JHC and AA no.5. I see that would keep the load around 1000 fps.
SAAMI says +P .38 Special pressure is 18,500 PSI. Regular .38 Special runs 17,000 PSI.
That 125 grain at 975 out of a 2.25 lb. revolver recoils with 2.9 ft-lbs. A 130 grain(no 125's in a 2.25 lb. revolver listed ).38 at 950 fps out of a 2.25 lb. revolver recoils at 3.1 ft-lbs.
Your Chief's Special weighs 19.5 ounces. That's 1 pound 3.5 ounces. Felt recoil with any +P will be, um, impressive. However, Smith says current M36's are rated for +P ammo.
That 125 grain at 975 out of a 2.25 lb. revolver recoils with 2.9 ft-lbs. A 130 grain(no 125's in a 2.25 lb. revolver listed ).38 at 950 fps out of a 2.25 lb. revolver recoils at 3.1 ft-lbs.
Your Chief's Special weighs 19.5 ounces. That's 1 pound 3.5 ounces. Felt recoil with any +P will be, um, impressive. However, Smith says current M36's are rated for +P ammo.
Many believe a steady diet or a lot of rounds of +P in these small revolvers will eventually cause problems with the gun.
isn't this true of any gun using any ammunition? Given enough rounds (an undefined quantity) eventually there will be mechanical failure that can at least be attributed partly to the function of the gun firing a projectile and the forces that cause it.
Chief’s Special and +P loads?
+P is a myth.
First of all, do a little research on S&W 38/44 loads. Developed in 1930 to offer police a more powerful load for the 38 Special. To handle the added pressure, S&W produced the Heavy Duty N frame 44 revolvers in 38 Special, thus the name 38/44. The 38/44 ammo by Remington used 38 Special brass loaded to fire a 158 grain bullet at 1100 fps.
A 1955 copy of Lyman Ideal Handbook #40 lists 38/44 loads at:
150 grain wadcutter - 6.4 gn Unique - 1154 fps
150 grain wadcutter - 13.5 gn 2400 Rifle - 1227 fps
158 grain cast plain base - 13.5 2400 Rifle - 1220- fps
(The 38/44 prompted the development of the 357 Magnum which was introduced in 1935.)
Back to the Chief’s Special.
Elmer Keith in chapter 1 of his 1961 book, “SIXGUNS”, said the following about testing two S&W J frames; the Centennial (later model 40) and the Chief’s Special (later model 36) using 38/44 ammunition:
“…while S&W does not advertise the fact, both guns will perfectly handle the 38/44 and other high speed ammunition…”.
He fired 500 rounds of 38/44 through EACH gun and saw, “…no ill effects. either visually or by careful measurement…”.
Although I do not recommend using such loads, I think Mr. Keith made a statement.
Your Chief will handle +P just fine.
+P is a myth.
First of all, do a little research on S&W 38/44 loads. Developed in 1930 to offer police a more powerful load for the 38 Special. To handle the added pressure, S&W produced the Heavy Duty N frame 44 revolvers in 38 Special, thus the name 38/44. The 38/44 ammo by Remington used 38 Special brass loaded to fire a 158 grain bullet at 1100 fps.
A 1955 copy of Lyman Ideal Handbook #40 lists 38/44 loads at:
150 grain wadcutter - 6.4 gn Unique - 1154 fps
150 grain wadcutter - 13.5 gn 2400 Rifle - 1227 fps
158 grain cast plain base - 13.5 2400 Rifle - 1220- fps
(The 38/44 prompted the development of the 357 Magnum which was introduced in 1935.)
Back to the Chief’s Special.
Elmer Keith in chapter 1 of his 1961 book, “SIXGUNS”, said the following about testing two S&W J frames; the Centennial (later model 40) and the Chief’s Special (later model 36) using 38/44 ammunition:
“…while S&W does not advertise the fact, both guns will perfectly handle the 38/44 and other high speed ammunition…”.
He fired 500 rounds of 38/44 through EACH gun and saw, “…no ill effects. either visually or by careful measurement…”.
Although I do not recommend using such loads, I think Mr. Keith made a statement.
Your Chief will handle +P just fine.
bedbugbilly
New member
I have two Model 36 - the snub and the 3" - both excellent J frames and I often CCW them. As far as +P . . . . well obviously from the posts you CAN use it or so many do evidently. dMy personal opinion is "why"? I can shoot either of my 36s all day long with standard 38 special (my reloads), BUT, not with the factory grips. I've changed both out to Pachmeyer (S)P?) combat grips which makes a world of difference.
But . . and again, it's a personal opinion . . . why go to +P when a standard 38 special will "get the job done"?. Yea, maybe it will handle a +P but then again, there are those that would stuff a 357 in one if it wouldn't lock up the cylinder.
I've never understood, and especially for those of us that reload, the need or desire to load "hotter" than recommended just to push the envelope and then use it in a firearm that the manufacturer intended for standard loads.
Again, as seen in the posts, you can do it and probably get away with it. But if you want to use stronger/hotter loads, then why not get a 357 snub - there are plenty of them out there to be had. I would not classify the Model 36 J frame as a "range gun" and in my experience with mine, at SD ranges, with standard 38 Special ammo I have no doubt that either of them would be adequate. And in fact, both of my 36s do an excellent job for critters and woods walking using my 38 Colt Short reloads with a 120 grain cast lead slug.
But again, just my humble thoughts . . . . .
But . . and again, it's a personal opinion . . . why go to +P when a standard 38 special will "get the job done"?. Yea, maybe it will handle a +P but then again, there are those that would stuff a 357 in one if it wouldn't lock up the cylinder.
I've never understood, and especially for those of us that reload, the need or desire to load "hotter" than recommended just to push the envelope and then use it in a firearm that the manufacturer intended for standard loads.
Again, as seen in the posts, you can do it and probably get away with it. But if you want to use stronger/hotter loads, then why not get a 357 snub - there are plenty of them out there to be had. I would not classify the Model 36 J frame as a "range gun" and in my experience with mine, at SD ranges, with standard 38 Special ammo I have no doubt that either of them would be adequate. And in fact, both of my 36s do an excellent job for critters and woods walking using my 38 Colt Short reloads with a 120 grain cast lead slug.
But again, just my humble thoughts . . . . .
Model12Win
Moderator
Good little stoppers. My dad has a model 37, which is the aluminium airweight framed version.
Okay, so this seems to be somewhat split on the +P issue. after researching load data and sammi specs, my little J frame 38 max's out at 17000 PSI. so, even a mild +P will take me past that mark. I know there is probably a "fudge factor" built in to maintain safety but as some have said why chance it. I will work up loads to the 38 sp max and be done with it. maybe I might shake a few extra 10ths of a grain in if I'm not seeing signs of over pressure.
No such thing as a "mild +P" or a "fudge factor". +P is about pressure, not velocity too. Said pressure maxes at 18,500 psi.
Smith saying on-line and in their advertising that a Model 36 will handle +P ammo means it will handle +P ammo. However, I think you'll find the felt recoil will be excessive out of a 19.5 ounce revolver. It'll hurt to shoot.
Smith saying on-line and in their advertising that a Model 36 will handle +P ammo means it will handle +P ammo. However, I think you'll find the felt recoil will be excessive out of a 19.5 ounce revolver. It'll hurt to shoot.
Okay sorry, I might not be communicating very well here. When I say mild +P, I mean as a hand loader I can use the starting load data (mild) or the max load (hot). By "fudge factor" I mean when S&W builds a gun I don't believe that they build it to blow up at 17001 psi. Hope that clears things up a bit.