Model 29 Strength

N

No Name XII

New member
Well, at least half of this could probably go in the handloading forum, but it seemed like it would be easier to just group it together. I'm pretty sure that I remeber hearing that the N-frame was on the small and weak side for .44 Mag. Is is strong enough that it can handle basically any published loads, or are some things off limits? For example the loads that I am thinking of are a 240 gr XTP at 1400 fps, and a 300 gr XTP at 1200 fps. These are both the max loads, but the factory loads that I have been shooting up until now are a 240 gr sjsp at 1100 fps. Are the factory loads that low due to weak guns, or what? If it is ok to shoot these heavier loads, how much will it accelerate wear on the gun?
The other question, and it really does belong in handloading, is about bullets with two cannelures. The 300 gr XTP has two seating depth ranges. In order to get the published COL, you have to seat the bullet to the second ring. If a bullet seated longer by using the first cannelure will fit without binding the cylinder, am I better off loading them that way? The longer the seating depth, the lower the pressure, right? If this is the case, can I seat the bullets further out and work up to even more powder, or is pressure not the only concern?
 
Is is strong enough that it can handle basically any published loads, or are some things off limits?
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Yes some loads are off limits for the 29. There's just no sense in beating up the gun unnecesarily. If you want to shoot the loads that you posted, get a Ruger.

In my mind, the 300g bullets in general are off limits for the 29, and the 240g bullet at 1400 is probably a bit on the extreme side also, but would probably be ok at 1250.

Cylinder length sets the limit for bullet seating, use the cannelure that sets the bullet farther out but will not bind. (Rugers have longer cylinders ;) )

Your gun would probably handle very occassional use of those loads but it will still take its toll on the gun and its longevity. Why drive your car at 120mph all the time knowing that it'll severely shorten its service life? If you drove it at 80mph, you'll still get to where you're going and it'll last a lot longer.
 
Thanks. I am planning on getting a Ruger in the future, and the 4" barrel on the 29 can make it a handful sometimes anyway, but I'll have to wait until an opportunity to get one comes up. Is it just the pressure of the heavy loads that is a problem, or is it the higher recoil force, or is it both? I guess one of the reasons that I wanted to go with hotter loads was for a better seal; with the factory rounds, the brass is dirty on the outside like it didn't seal to the chamber completely. They are also sticky on extraction, I am assuming because of the dirt. Or is this not an ammunition issue?
 
I don't have my Speer data book next to me. My thought is that you must be using a dirty powder that is creating the black cases. The thing to try is a Lee crimper. Try a different powder too. The issue is air space in setting bullet depth. You could create a KB by allowing too much pressure at igniiion with a fast burning powder, not enough depth seating, not enough crimp and a air space in the case. I have seen CAS shooters do this and KBs result. I agree too that the depth of seating can be an issue with M29s and Taurus revolvers also. Ruger cylinders are longer and better able to deal with higher pressure loads. Get a Ruger is sound advice. I used a older Hawes/Sauer single action for my hunting 44 Magnum for decades. They were designed for 45 Magnum competition shooting and built stout. The Taurus solution was to not allow some 44 Magnums to fit in the chambers. It worked. S&W M29s are excellent revolvers but, they will stretch and wear faster with maximum loads. Ruger is the simple solution, not the cheapest but, the simplest. The Ruger will be durable enough to take the loads you mention in stride. I would not use those loads in a M29 and probably not in a 629 even with the so-called endurance enhancements.
 
You could create a KB by allowing too much pressure at igniiion with a fast burning powder, not enough depth seating, not enough crimp and a air space in the case.
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Wait, I thought that more empty space (via a longer COL) in straightwall cartridges meant lower pressure. This is what I was told in another post in the handloading forum. Maybe this is what you are saying and I just got confused.
 
Pressure is also affected by the burning rate of the powder. It would take a smaller amount of fast burning powder to equal the pressure of a slower burning powder.
You should spend more time reading reloading manuals and stay away from the max loads until you understand the concepts. Max loads are different for every firearm (that's why it's recommended to back the load down 10% and work it up for each individual firearm). A minor mistake can turn into a major catastrophy in a blink of an eye.
 
Well, I thought (it seems like I'm usually wrong anyway) that I did have a decent handle on the concepts. Which ones am I not getting? I realize that faster burning powders reach their pressure peak sooner than slower ones. It's not like I was going to just start at the max loads, I just posted those as examples. I was going to make up a few of a bunch of loads starting at the minimum going up to max, then testing them until I find one that I like, or until I get signs, whichever came first. The thing that threw me was that I had been told that all else being equal, a bullet seated longer would lower the pressure from a shorter COL, but it seemed that what sir william said was contradictory to that. Which is correct?
 
Smiths Ain't Weak!

Good grief, the 29 has been around since 1955! The Smith is plenty strong for any load in current manuals.
Bear in mind that back in the 50s the original load ran a 240@1500fps, now days we have slower "magnum" powders like H-110/296 which generate lower pressures than the old 2400.
300gn bullets are for the rag reading crowd that need to reenforce their egos and likely never have been to the field hunting.
The .44 Maggie with factory loads has harvested every animal in Africa and Northern America.
FYI, the 29 has been destruction tested side by side with a Ruger Super Blackhawk. Wanna wager which blew it's cylinder first?
 
I don't believe that a ruger cylinder let go before a smith unless there was a problem with a load like too much crimp or seated too deep.

I don't think smiths are weak either. Just not as heavy duty as rugers. If Smiths are stronger than Rugers then how come the data book is missing the page for 'Loads for Smiths & TC Contenders only'?:rolleyes:
 
If you increase the case volume by seating the bullet out further then pressure should drop for a given powder. This drop in pressure may or may not be linear for all powders and I don't know of a way to calculate it.
You will be limited by your chamber length and the bullet's cannelure when seating bullets out longer. Remember you will need a firm crimp as you get into the upper end of the loads with the slower powders.
 
FYI, the 29 has been destruction tested side by side with a Ruger Super Blackhawk. Wanna wager which blew it's cylinder first?
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There's more to a gun's strength than the cylinder...in every other aspect, the 29 is weaker.

Check the serial #. For 629s, its above BFFXXXX, can't remember for 29s; you'll have all the improvements S&W made to these guns to get them to stand up to the pounding.
 
For powder in any mag try H110

Yes the max loads are ok in a 29 as long as there not the ones listed for Contenders. But whats the reasion unless your hunting with one.
I have had 29's Ruger super black hawlks and contenders in 44 and H110 works fine for all and is clean.
I agree, stay away from the 300 GR in the smiths but the contenders love them. The only thing that I was very carful about was loading for the contender. I made special marks and threw away the cases after one shot.
But they were very hot loads recomended only for the contender and after fired showed a lot of stress marks on the side of the cases and the primers were flat as pancakes.
But the flame and noise was impressive.
 
Yeah, Elmer Keith wrote bout the experiment where the Blackhawk blew up first...He also mentioned that about 3000 full house rounds and the 29 loosened up considerably.

The model 29 will handle any factory .44 mag round....But it was not designed to be hotrodded over factory specs (Remington, Winchester, etc, not custom ammo makers)....
Remember, the original .44 magnum was a hotrodded .44 special.
With some of these buffalo bore rounds and stuff, you are dealing with people who are hotrodding the .44 magnum.
 
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