Model 11 identification help

T

TFGUARD

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I recently bought a shotgun and I thought it was a Remington model 11. I didn't eve bother to look for a stamping on the receiver or barrel. I just looked to make sure it was a 30in 12guage full choke. I have no idea if the barrel was original or aftermarket. It has no serial numbers and just a faint worn out stamp. The only mark is a serial number on the lower end of receiver. It has a recoil pad on it so I guess I could take it off and check stock. I read another post about a similar situation with a model 11. Can anyone help me out or tell me what to do to identify if in fact the barrel was aftermarket? The only thing on barrel is proof tested guage full and a little circle stamp next to it.
Serial number on it is 22XXX

Any insight would be great. I'm trying to get my pics small enough to post. The chamber, butt stock, and forearm look very similar to all other model 11's I've looked at on internet.


Here are a few pics
 

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model 11

Goat,

Thanks,

I took 3 more pictures however what do you need to see? Did Remington stamp REMINGTON on every barrel made? And if so then this would be an after market barrel. I took it off and found a couple little unidentifiable stamps.

With a 22XXX serial number would that make it about a 1906 model?

Do you know of any other place that might be able to help?
 

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If the barrel is marked with the word "full" then I say Remington. Browning used little star symbols to indicate degree of choke. The checkering screams replacement stock to me. The metal looks to me as though some heavy handed jackass has polished off all of the markings--maybe it was rusty and the bluer thought that it was the right thing to do. It just makes me angry to see someone mess up a perfectly good gun out of ignorance. Sorry, rant over. Goatwhiskers the Elder
 
I don't think it's a Remington.
If it IS a Remington, it's no earlier than 1928. That's when they switched to the cross bolt safety. Earlier models had the safety inside the trigger guard. But a S/N that low on a Remington would be first or second year production.

Check the ejector on the barrel extension. The Browning A5 has 2 ejector hooks. The Remington and the Savage 720 (the other license copy) have one.

So if yours has 2 hook, I'd say it's an A5 from 1925 based on the S/N. If it has one, I'd say a Savage. No idea when as I don't know any references for Savage serials.

Browning and Remington both had checkered stocks so that's not necessarily non-original. Sure looks like the receiver was refinished though.
 
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I say it's not a Remington. Safety is wrong for that early of a gun, and the forend cap is wrong. Not a Browning. Could be a Savage. Looks like the buttstock has been replaced with newer wood (squared off pistol grip is too 1960-ish).
 
model 11

Yeah I thought the safety was also odd for that early of a gun. Also, I checked the ejector hook, is that the a little half inch hook extending out of the bolt, and there was only 1. So then you think it might be a savage 720 with a model 11 forearm and buttstock?

Thanks,
 
That's a Remington Model 11, someone probably changed out the trigger guard at some point in time. It can't be a Browning as it doesn't have the MC and it can't be a Savage as there are no roll markings.

That is identical to my Model 11 except mine was made in 1931 and is 20ga. The pistol grip being square is normal for a later 20's early 30's model. Remington called them pistol grips as the rounded ones were actually called half round grips not actually pistol grips. If you tear it apart it should be stamped on the rear tangs with the same serial number as the receiver, if not someone replaced the trigger guard.

Early model stocks also had "cheeks" on them at the back of the receiver. I don't think it's a bad looking shotgun and I'd shoot it if it were mine.
 
I too think it's a Remington, but your Trip 030.JPG photo is not clear enough on my computer for me to tell whether there is any model information shown on the breech bolt. It looks plain but I can't be sure from the picture.

Remington made three differently designated shotguns based on the same John Browning patent. They were the Remington Automatic Shotgun made between 1905 and 1911; the Remington Model 11, made from 1911 until 1948; and a three-shot Remington "Sportsman" model (made in the 1930's, I think) which was added to the Remington lineup in addition to the Model 11; i.e. I don't think it replaced the Model 11, I think it was sold right alongside the Model 11. However, other than having a different name, a different magazine end cap, and a limited three-shot capacity (compared to an unplugged Model 11's 5-shot capacity) the Sportsman was practically identical to a Model 11 in appearance.

The most obvious visual difference between these three very similar shotguns is what they say or don't say on their breech bolts. The breech bolt of the original Remington Automatic shotgun was plain. The breech bolt of the Remington Model 11 was stamped Model 11. The breech bolt of a Sportsman model was stamped The Sportsman.
 
I forgot to mention in my post immediately above that the Sportsman Model of this shotgun also had a different stock forearm that was wider and flatter on the bottom than was the Model 11's. I believe it was called a "beavertail".

I think the breech bolt on the Sportsman Model was stamped The Sportsman some years and Sportsman Model in others.

In addition to the three basic variations of this John Browning-designed gun that Remington manufactured in the United States under its own name from 1905 until 1948, during WWII, Remington also manufactured in the U.S. the nearly identical Browning A-5 shotgun for Fabrique National (the Belgian Company known as FN that John Browning licensed to manufacture his patented shotgun design in Europe.)

I will hazard a guess that despite the wrong type of trigger safety, the OP's gun is a Remington Automatic Shotgun, manufactured between 1905 and 1911. If so, the safety must have been retro-fitted. I'm not sure these early guns even had all the barrel and other markings found on Model 11's, etc. so the barrel may be original and there may have never been any markings on the receiver to refinish off.
 
model 11

Thanks for all the help. The breech bolt was not marked with anything. The same goes for the barrel. With it's serial number could it just be a Remington Automatic shotgun made between 1905-1910 and would that explain no receiver or breach bolt identification? Even back then didn't Remington stamp the Barrels?

Thanks again
 
I have hyperlinked some information you may be interested in that I found on Answers.com WikiAnswers. Hope this hyperlink comes through.

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Browning_auto_shotgun_made_by_remington_sn_25935_How_old_is_it

PS: I note from this answer that I may have employed bad terminology to describe the original Browning patent shotgun that was made by Remington 1905-1910. It was apparently actually called the Remington Autoloading Shotgun; not the Remington Automatic Shotgun which was the name I used for it in my earlier posts. My bad. Sorry. You may have better luck with an internet search for information on that particular model if you search for Remington Autoloading Shotgun.
 
One thing more I just noticed about the OP's gun. The 5 digit serial number is located underneath the receiver in the front of the loading port. On my Model 11, manufactured in 1938, the 6 dogit serial number is located on on the bottom of the left side of the receiver (as I hold the gun in firing position), below the Flying Duck Rollmark and the word Remington and the patent registration notice.

The checkered stock and forearm on the OP's gun looks exactly like my 1938 Model 11. The barrel is different though, because mine does have the information that it is a Remington, manufactured in Ilion, NY, under the Browning patent. That information on mine is located on the top of the barrel directly above the forearm.

I feel certain that the OP's gun is basically one of the Remingtons that was manufactured under the Browning patent. That's about where my certainty ends because the metal parts do appear to have been agressively refinished. However, I am convinced that the receiver at least, is from a pre-1911 Browning Auto-Loading Shotgun, judging strictly by the serial number. Since the receiver of any gun is technically considered to be the gun (according to law), I guess you'd have to say that the OP's gun is at least technically one of those early Browning Auto-loading shotguns. However, I have no idea whether the barrel is original to the gun or whether the buttstock or forearm is original to that gun. I am pretty sure that the trigger safety mechanism at least, was retrofitted.

Regardless whether the OP's gun is an original in all respects Remington Auto-loading Shotgun manufactured before 1911, or is a gun that was cobbled together from parts from two or more different Remington models, it is still a fine-looking old shotgun.
 
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