MOA question about 22 lr

M

Marquezj16

New member
So, MOA is approximately 1 inch at 100 yards, 2 inch at 200 yards and so forth. My question is if my .22lr shoots into 0.5 inch at 50 yards, does that make it a MOA accurate rifle or do I have to shoot at 100 yards to say it shoots MOA?
 
I don't agree and would say you have to shoot. I believe any or all claims to being "one MOA" are generally associated with 100 yard shots. You could have a rifle that shoots a half inch at 50 yards and then find four or five inches more or less out at 100 yards. I would not call it a one MOA gun just because it's tight at 50.
 
An MOA is a Minute Of Angle. The measurement is not based upon distance but geometry. A minute of angle is 1 /60th of one degree, (and a second of angle is 1/60th of a minute of angle) Actually 1 MOA is 1.047" at 100 yds.
Thus your rifle shooting 1/2" groups @ 50 yds is shooting into 1 MOA as it would be shooting 1" at 100 yds, 2" at 200 yds.

Roger
 
SteelChickenShooter said:
I don't agree and would say you have to shoot. I believe any or all claims to being "one MOA" are generally associated with 100 yard shots. You could have a rifle that shoots a half inch at 50 yards and then find four or five inches more or less out at 100 yards. I would not call it a one MOA gun just because it's tight at 50.
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MOA isn't distance. If it shoots 1/2" at 50 it's just as "MOA" as 5" at 500.

Is it as impressive? No it's not, but it's just as "MOA".

Many shooters have come to assume that MOA implies 100 yard shooting but there's no reason for that except it's the most often reported distance.
 
My thoughts... If one can shoot MOA at 50yrds (1/2") but at 100yds it group opens up past what would be MOA, I certainly would call it a MOA gun. Well, perhaps for a handgun yes, but for any long gun, no. With the vast majority of firearm folks thinking 100yds when it comes to this terminology, I think bragging about MOA at 50yds should be stated with that distance being mentioned so as to not mislead others.
 
MOA isn't distance. If it shoots 1/2" at 50 it's just as "MOA" as 5" at 500.
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What he said. Also, if you're shooting plain jane .22lr then you are likely to go from supersonic to subsonic somewhere around the 100 yard mark, depending on ammo and barrel length. That's why .22's are usually not still shooting 1 moa beyond 100 yards, if it does AT 100.
 
If you are mislead by your own assumptions, who is doing the misleading?

The real answer is to not report MOA shooting without reporting distance. Frankly, it's a mute point since I virtually never seen anyone do so anyway. I don't even remember the last time I saw someone report a gun as an "MOA shooter" with some sort of distance reported.

Regardless, the OPs question was, is 1/2" MOA at 50 yards? The answer is yes.
 
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What he said. Also, if you're shooting plain jane .22lr then you are likely to go from supersonic to subsonic somewhere around the 100 yard mark, depending on ammo and barrel length. That's why .22's are usually not still shooting 1 moa beyond 100 yards, if it does AT 100.
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High velocity .22 lr, 1280 fps and a 40 grain bullet, actually goes subsonic at around 40-45 yards from the muzzle.
This is why match ammo is subsonic to begin with.

The worst possible velocity for match ammo would be ammo that goes from supersonic to subsonic right as it exits the muzzle. If it goes subsonic right before it reaches the target, it's not that bad for accuracy.
You either want it to be supersonic all the way to the target or subsonic all the way to the target.
 
MOA (Minute of Angle) is a firearms term.
Makers of rifles that claim "One MOA" out of the box are saying their rifles will group on paper within an inch or so at 100 yards.

MOA (Minute of Arc) is a geometry term.

If the OP's gun can shoot multiple 22LR rounds with about an inch spread at 100 yards, he has a one MOA gun.

The two terms are often interchanged, but they do have separate (and perhaps similar) meanings.
 
My friend, they are not "similar". They are synonymous.

Absolutely, completely, interchangeable. An "arc" is an "angle", an angle is an arc.

Look up the definitions. You will see them listed as "or", they are the same.
 
True statement and another question

My 22 lr rifle is capable of shooting MOA at 50 yards.

I have not tried to group it at 100 yards yet so I don't know if it can shoot MOA at that distance.

The reason I posed the question is because of the MOA threads I have read lately. It had me wondering if you can shoot into an an inch at 100 yards but you can't group 3" at 300 yards, does it then lose its "MOA" accuracy?

Thanks guys for adding to the discussion.
 
Shooting 10 inch groups at 1000 yards is a lot more difficult than shooting a 1 inch group at 100 yards. To win a long range match, you have to be very good at reading the wind.
 
Marquezj16 said:
My 22 lr rifle is capable of shooting MOA at 50 yards.

I have not tried to group it at 100 yards yet so I don't know if it can shoot MOA at that distance.

The reason I posed the question is because of the MOA threads I have read lately. It had me wondering if you can shoot into an an inch at 100 yards but you can't group 3" at 300 yards, does it then lose its "MOA" accuracy?

Thanks guys for adding to the discussion.
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Every rifle loses it's "MOA rating" at some range or another. For a 22, it might be 100, 125 yards. For a varmint caliber like 204 or 22-250, or larger calibers like .308, 30-06 or 7mm types, it might be 5, 6, 700, even 1000 yards or more. For a 338 Lapua or 50BMG, it might be 2,500 or 3,000 yards.

That's why "my rifle shoots MOA" is kind of meaningless without a yardage designation.

By the way, my .204 shoots 3/4 MOA (3 inch groups) at 410 yards. ;) :)
 
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By shooting at minute of broad side of a barn, I am able to disassociate myself from the encumbrances that MOA imposes on me, whether it be distance, geometry or.... ability. :eek:
 
peetzakilla said:
Every rifle loses it's "MOA rating" at some range or another. For a 22, it might be 100, 125 yards. For a varmint caliber like 204 or 22-250, or larger calibers like .308, 30-06 or 7mm types, it might be 5, 6, 700, even 1000 yards or more. For a 338 Lapua or 50BMG, it might be 2,500 or 3,000 yards.

That's why "my rifle shoots MOA" is kind of meaningless with a yardage designation.

By the way, my .204 shoots 3/4 MOA (3 inch groups) at 410 yards.
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There's also a big difference between lucking into a 1 MOA 3-shot group exactly one time in a row and consistantly shooting 1 MOA 10 shot groups at 100 yards.
 
B.L.E. said:
There's also a big difference between lucking into a 1 MOA 3-shot group exactly one time in a row and consistantly shooting 1 MOA 10 shot groups at 100 yards.
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Yep, BTW, I meant "without a yardage designation", not WITH one. ;)

I'm always curious about the size of the groups people report... seems like people think 3 is enough. 5 is really a minimum, but technically still not statistically relevant.
Most of our groups would be a lot bigger with valid group sizes. :eek:
 
IIRC at the Appleseed shoot they stated that If you are MOA at 25 yards you will be on at 200 yards and for all this MOA stuff isn't that what scope adjustment is all about. Doesn't a sniper use the dots in the scope to compensate at distance. I don't see how a shot can be on at 50, 100, 200, 300 yards without changing something
 
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