Moa/moa vs mil/mil

D

dontcatchmany

New member
What are the advantages / disadvantages of the above reticles/turrets.

I am getting ready to purchase a scope with one or the other.

I have a little more brain power with the moa, but am totally willing to explore milradian.

Is it a matter of personal comfort or what. LOL...I am trying to get away from Kentucky windage for hold over. And I love the challenge of learning new things.

Thanks!
 
According to The Ultimate Sniper by Maj. John L. Plaster

Mil : An angular measurement equal to 1/6400 of a circle, or 3.375 MOA.
Speaking of the Leupold the Mil Dot is actually 3/4 mil. The distance between the mil dots centers that are one mil. Newer scopes could be different. They are used as a method of finding range and hold over and windage.

MOA is 1.047" at 100 yards. Most think of it as 1 " at 100 yds. and 10" at a thousand yds. But at 1,000 yds it would be a difference of .47".

Most scopes have 1/8, 1/4 inch clicks at 100 yards. Example: One 1/8 click = one inch at 800 yards.

It gets into some very confusing math questions that I don't fully understand.
Then your rifle and load may differ, so you have to test it out. Minor things such as wind temp. elevation ect. come into play, so it can become very complicated.
 
An MOA scope will be good out to 600 yards; after that they tend to get inaccurate in range estimation. Unless you have half MOA hash marks on your scope.
http://www.shooterready.com/moademo.html

Try this demo to get a feel for the two scopes.

To help yourself out, forget what clicks are in inches at 100 yards. Rather you should just remember that if your scope says "1/4 inch @ 100" yards", it's actually just 1/4 MOA.
For instance, say you have a dope sheet and you're shooting at 300 yards and the dope sheet calls for you to come up 12 inches at that distance, from a 100 yard zero. You have "1/4 inch" clicks, which is equal to 3/4 of an inch at 300 yards. Now try doing the math and figuring out how many clicks that equals too, since your clicks are 1/4" @ 100 and 3/4" @ 300.
For some, it's not hard to mess with "inches" at different distances, but some it is harder and can screw up shots.
So to remedy that, instead of referring to your clicks as "inches at 100 yards", refer to them as just MOA.

Most dope sheets have compensation for inches and MOA.

So if your dope sheet calls for 12.36 inches elevation or 4.29 MOA, you simply can just turn a 1/4 MOA scope turret till it equals 4.29 MOA (which in this case would be 17 clicks)
 
While technically correct, the previous replies missed emphasizing the point: Distance

It your old scopes are like mine, there is often a little label inside the turret cap that says something like "1 click = 1/4-in at 100-yds" -- this works fine if you're target is at 100-yards. Even if you're zeroing a scope at 50-yards, you can do the math in your head; but what if you're zeroing at 25-meters? Now you need some charts or a calculator. If you're not sure about your target distance, then the accuracy of your guess gets factored into the equation. The weak link in this method is distance, you have to know your distance to accurately adjust your sights or shift your aim point.

If your working with a scope with angular mils, then the distance factor is taken out of the equation. A 5 mil correction is a 5 mil correction no matter what the distance to the target. If you have a scope with mils in the reticle, and your turret adjustments are in mils, then you can make corrections all day long and not have to worry about distance to target.

Using mils makes setting zero at an unknown distance very easy; however, if you are looking to make a first shot kill, then you need to know the distance to target with either system. Or, shooting at an unknown distance, if your spotter's scope it graduated in mils, then he can feed you corrections without having to do any conversions (assuming other doping is constant).

To an experienced shooter, this may seem like so much mumbo-jumbo; but, remember, mils have been used my artillery men for ages. The military figure this system is easier to introduce new shooters to small arms.

thesheepdog,
Very cool link, thanks!
 
It your old scopes are like mine, there is often a little label inside the turret cap that says something like "1 click = 1/4-in at 100-yds" -- this works fine if you're target is at 100-yards. Even if you're zeroing a scope at 50-yards, you can do the math in your head; but what if you're zeroing at 25-meters? Now you need some charts or a calculator. If you're not sure about your target distance, then the accuracy of your guess gets factored into the equation. The weak link in this method is distance, you have to know your distance to accurately adjust your sights or shift your aim point.
Click to expand...

I already emphasized this.

To help yourself out, forget what clicks are in inches at 100 yards. Rather you should just remember that if your scope says "1/4 inch @ 100" yards", it's actually just 1/4 MOA.
For instance, say you have a dope sheet and you're shooting at 300 yards and the dope sheet calls for you to come up 12 inches at that distance, from a 100 yard zero. You have "1/4 inch" clicks, which is equal to 3/4 of an inch at 300 yards. Now try doing the math and figuring out how many clicks that equals too, since your clicks are 1/4" @ 100 and 3/4" @ 300.
For some, it's not hard to mess with "inches" at different distances, but some it is harder and can screw up shots.
So to remedy that, instead of referring to your clicks as "inches at 100 yards", refer to them as just MOA.
Click to expand...

To an INexperienced shooter, this may seem like so much mumbo-jumbo; but, remember, mils have been used my artillery men for ages. The military figure this system is easier to introduce new shooters to small arms.
Click to expand...

thesheepdog,
Very cool link, thanks!
Click to expand...

Sure! It has helped me with range estimations and such a lot.
 
I am looking at a Vortex PST 4-16x50 FFP EBR-1 either MOA OR MRAD. I like the FFP and parallax and did not want to spend 2 grand on a scope on a rifle that would get used only six-eight times a year.

All I have ever used before is a duplex reticle and my version of Kentucky windage.

Thanks for the link Sheep. And thanks to all for the replies.

I have some studyng to do...and then make a decision and stick with it.

600 yds is going to be my max range with most everything between 100 and 400 yds.

Thanks again.
 
I am (you will be too) happy when the reticle matches the turret adjustment. Other than that, i would just go with what you are more comfortable with, use the most/best, and maybe consider staying consistent with what your other rifles use.
 
I was talking to an old army buddy who hunts at long range and also shoots competitively. He says when he is at a competition, he uses a mildot reticle because he has time to make the computations and adjust his scope. When he is in the field, he prefers a clear reticle because he is making quick adjustments(Kentucky Windage) for a second or third shot if necessary...
 
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