Mixed messages from T/C about "seasoning"

F

FlyFitz

Inactive
Hi All,

New to the forum. Live in MD and have been shooting BP's for about 6 years. Had a CVA and switched to an Omega this year. Have a 3X9 Leopold on it.

When I purchased the gun, a buddy at a local gun shop told me to get the best shooting out of the Omega, I should season the barrel with Bore Butter using the following method: Shoot 15 times, using the following sequence:

Bore butter, shoot, wet patch, 2 dry, repeat.

This was not for sighting in--only for quickly seasoning the barrel.

From what I read from T/C, this is similar to what they suggest.

Well, after "seasoning" the gun a few months ago, I was shooting 2 weeks ago to sight in the scope (was bore sighted), with 100gr. Pyrodex pellets and 200gr Shockwaves, the gun was all over the place. I tried to make sure the barrel was dry each time, but never got consistent groups. Cleaned after about 4 shots with wet solvent patch and a couple of dry and proceeded to load another Shockwave sabot. Well, got about 3/4 of the way or more down the barrel and it wouldn't budge. Long story short, I unloaded the gun, pulled the breech plug and tried everything to get it out. Couldn't, so I called T/C and the tech said to send it back. I did and am waiting for FedEx to bring it to me today.

OK, so my question/confusion is that T/C pushes "seasoning" (and obviously storage) with Bore Butter and on the same page, in red writing, state:

(QUOTE)

6: Is T/C's Natural Lube 1000 Plus Bore Butter really that good? How does it work?
It sure is, and if you've got some friends who are using it, ask them. Our All Natural "Bore Butter" is absent of any petroleum based oil, and contains an ingredient which seasons the bore with repeated use, just as you would season a cast iron skillet. Tar, used to pave highways, is made by heating a petroleum based oil. In other words, heat plus petroleum oil equals tar! That's what causes the heavy fouling when shooting a muzzleloader with conventional petroleum based lubes. The problem of heavy fouling was one not encountered in the old days, as the oils used then were all natural' whale oil, bear fat, deer tallow, etc. Petroleum based oils were not discovered until the mid 1800's, and during the Civil War, fouling did become a problem.

7: How do I use Natural Lube 1000 Plus Bore Butter?
It's easy. The first step is to remove all traces of oil from your muzzleloader by cleaning the bore with hot water and a detergent. Then coat the bore with Bore Butter using a patch or swab saturated with it. From that point on, never allow a petroleum based lube to interfere with the Natural Lube. Use bullets prelubed with Bore Butter, and when cleaning, use an all natural bore cleaner like our No. 13. As you continue to shoot, you will be slowly seasoning the bore and will notice that very little fouling builds up. Loading will remain easy from shot to shot, and cleaning will be a snap.

***Note about Sabots

T/C's All Natural Lube 1000 Plus Bore Butter was designed as a lube to be used with traditional patched roundballs (lube the patches) and all lead conical bullets like our Maxi-Ball and Maxi-Hunters.

If you are shooting sabots, DO NOT LUBE YOUR SABOTS. Sabots are designed to be shot right out of the package____DRY. In fact, you should remove any trace of Natural Lube, or any lube for that matter, from the barrel before shooting sabots. The less lube you have in the barrel when shooting sabots, the better, to achieve optimum accuracy.

When your hunting or shooting is done, and your rifle cleaned after shooting, re-lube your barrel with T/C's All Natural Lube Bore Butter prior to storage. Wipe down the outside as well. It's an excellent rust preventative.
(END QUOTE)

OK, when I get my gun back today, what the heck am I supposed to do? I am going to stick with the 100gr Pyro pellets and Shockwave and I think I am going to steer very clear of Bore Butter except for storage.

Thoughts? Other confused Omega owners out there? This is a brand new gun--I'm pretty bummed out about this whole deal, so hope I can find a strategy that works for me.

Thanks,

Fitz
 
Sundance44s

If you`ll use a food grade oil to oil your barrel after cleaning ..it will stay seasoned and your first shot will reseason it too .. save the wd 40 and other gun oils for the innards of the lock and such ... if its a place black powder or a sub can get too .. use food grade .. and if you don`t own a little drop in bore light i suggest buying one ..well worth the 10 bucks to see how well your barrel is getting cleaned and oiled . ( if nothing but piece of mind )
 
It doesn't sound like you were adequately cleaning your bore or cleaning it frequently enough between shots. Were the patches that you were using extra tight? What kind of solvent were you using?
The rifling grooves are very shallow and won't hold much fouling residue. Plus tight fitting sabots leave a plastic residue that requires a good solvent to remove or loading gets tighter and tighter with each shot.
100 grains of powder leaves a lot of residue which can make loading a tight sabot more difficult if the fouling is not adequately removed.
When you introduce the bore butter into a heavily fouled barrel without trying to remove the residue immediately afterward, you're only softening the residue and pushing it back down the bore until the sabot can't be loaded anymore. It might not be as bad if the rifling grooves were deeper as in many of the round ball gun barrels, but in a shallow groove barrel, that just won't work for very many shots.
Tight fitting patches and a good solvent are the key. Even trying another powder might not make too much of a difference, but maybe it's worth a try. Using loose powder might allow you to reduce the powder charge a little bit when shooting for fun, and using less fffg (Pistol Powder) instead of 100 grain pellets or ffg (RS) may also produce a little less fouling. Just remember to reduce charges by an additional 10% (from ffg) if you switch to loose Pyrodex P (fffg). ;)
 
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Arcticap,

I think you have diagnosed it correctly. When I get it back, I am going to clean in between each shot (wet patch, currently using the Knight pre-soaked BP solvent patches, then 2 dry). I will save the Bore Butter for storage only and make sure it is all out of there before shooting.

Gun should be back to me later today. They said they pulled the bullet, cleaned the barrel, and replaced the breech plug and trigger (this was odd.) Can't wait to try again...

Thanks,

Fitz
 
One more thing about solvents...

Does the Knight solvent or the T/C #13 solvent remove plastic fouling? If not, do I need a different solvent to remove plastic fouling in addition to the Knight solvent or #13?

Thanks!

Fitz
 
I don't know if this will help, however, this is how I treat my Encore, not exactly according to TC's instructions, but it works.

1) I started using the TC #13 solvent. Still use it for cleaning my breech plug, but only because I let it soak in that for about an hour or so. Really gets it clean and keeps it from rusting.

2) Now, for cleaning my barrel, I use TC 17 cleaner. It's a petroleum base, so your barrel won't season. But this stuff works and works well.

3) When shooting, between shots I run a patch of 17 down, followed by 1 dry patch, followed by a patch of Bore Butter. You're not "supposed" to lube the barrel for sabots, but this nets me better results than shooting dry sabots. YMMV, as always, but experimenting may be necessary.

4) For after shooting cleanup, I start by cleaning the barrel from the muzzle to the breech plug. Wet patch, dry patch, wet patch until my wet patch comes out reasonably clean. Figure 3-4 passes to get it down to metal.

Then breech plug goes into a tub of #13 to soak. I then wipe out all of the fouling from the breech plug area and push a patch from the muzzle back. (Trust me, I tried it the other way and ended up recleaning my whole barrel AGAIN! :rolleyes: )

Then I spray the 17 into the area and let it soak for the ride home. At home everything gets wiped clean and lubed with either Bore Butter or Gorilla Grease as needed and reassembled.

This routine works well for me. I shoot real Goex FFg in my Encore, and get plenty of fouling, but one wet patch, one dry and one Bore Butter keep it down enough to shoot groups. Actually, I find I can get 3-6 passes out of a patch of Bore Butter.

The one thing I will note is that my rifle won't toss the first round out of a clean barrel with the others. It will go wild, usually high-right. Then it will toss 3 shots into a tear in the paper, all on top of each other.

FWIW, I'm shooting the new SuperGlide sabots now and the Encore is a ProHunter Katahdin with 20" bbl and a peep sight.

Good luck and hope they took care of your rifle right for ya!
 
I never thought the TC #13 cleaner did a thorough enough job with Pyrodex. I never did try Knight's, but Hoppe's #9 PLUS Black Powder Solvent and Patch Lube works well and is economical (I shake it up though).
Also:
Shooter's Choice Black Powder Gel
Butch's Black Powder Bore Shine, but be careful about getting it on your stock.

They're available here among others, including CVA Sabot Shooter's Solvent:

http://www.grafs.com/muzzleloading/3426
 
I have had several people tell me the same thing about the shockwave bullets sticking in their barrels. I only used them once in my Thompson Center, and found the same to be true. They were hard to push down the throat, in fact I had to drive the first one down with my shoe. I have owned my rifle for years, and have never had any such problems with any other bullet, so it makes me wonder, if there isn't something wrong with the quality control, at the manufacturers point.

Most guys here, that have shot them on game, don't like them, because they don't seem to expand as well as a lot of other bullets do, and don't leave much of a wound channel, making tracking just that much harder.

The pointed front on a muzzle loader bullet doesn't mean a whole lot, because your not shooting the bullet fast enough for it to have much of an effect on ranges of 150 yards or less. My ranges are generally less than 100 yards, and with 100 grains of 777, I am shooting about 1700 or 1800 fps. With a saboted 240 grain hollow point bullet, it will shoot 1" groups at 100 yards, and has yet to stop inside an animal. Goes in about the size of my pinky, and leaves a hole out the other side about the size of a golf ball.

I don't use anything in my Encore but bore butter for storage over long term, and rem oil in between range sessions. Always clean the barrel of all butter or oil before loading. Sabots just work better without a slick surface.

Been wanting to try the new super glide sabots, but I don't want to shoot the bullets in them. P-990 says they shoot well , so they probably do, but i'll have to wait and see, until I can get the sabots without the bullet.
 
WBB,
The Superglides DO shoot well, but I've gone to using bulk sabots and cheap .44-caliber pistol bullets for practice! Gets expensive shooting the "good" stuff. :o (I reload .44 Magnum, so I've usually got a few hundred or more .430" bullets around in various styles... ;) )

As for performance, I've heard nothing but good reports of the 240gr Mag Expresses. That may be what is in my rifle opening morning in a couple of weeks; still undecided, but let the record show that I have NOT bought any more Shockwaves in either Superglide sabots or regulars. ;)

BTW, FlyFitz, if you haven't learned already, #13 really doesn't do much on plastic fouling from sabots. But it does seem to do a good job on Goex (tried it after last session yesterday). Of course, I agree with articap about how well it (does not) works on Pyrodex. Can't seem to keep the bore from developing surface rust if all I clean Pyro with is 13.
 
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I have an Omega and do not use Bore Butter.

I use 777 FFFg powder (80 gr.) with a Precision Rifle 235gr sabot.

When I store the gun, I run a patch of Break Free (just a light coat) down the barrel.

Before I shoot it, I swab the barrel with a clean patch to remove the Break Free.

After each shot, I swab with #13 and follow with a clean dry patch.

I swab after EACH shot while at the range.

My Omega gives me 1.5" groups at 100 yards. I have a Sightron scope on the gun.

After shooting...another light coat of Break Free before I put the gun back in the safe.

I plan to hunt all deer season with my Omega...even the "Modern" portion. It's fun to hunt with. I may also use my Contender 10" in .44 Mag.

BTW...I get a measured 1,750 f.p.s. 50 yards from the muzzle with this load.

I hope this helps.

Bob
 
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