Missing Serial Number

O

owen502

Inactive
I just got a S&W 38 Special revolver from my grandmother. It was my grandfathers and it has been in a drawer for over 15 years. The serial numbers have been filed off of the gun. I was wondering if there was anything illegal about owning such a gun as I want to take it to a gunsmith to have it cleaned up so I can fire it. It is in great shape other than the numbers. I am in Louisiana if that helps any.
 
In california, that would be highly illegal, and the fact that you own the gun would be "proof" that you did the filing. Check packing.org for links to your state's gun laws.
 
You sure the number is filed off? There was a time that serial numbers weren't required, so make sure it originally had one to begin with. Seeing as it was your grandfather's, it might be old enough. Model would help too.
 
serial numbers were not required until after the 1968 gun control act. how old is the gun? if the serial number has actually been filed off I would lose the gun at the bottom of a lake regardless of who owned it in the past.
 
Penalties for Obliterated Serial Numbers:
LA R.S. 40:1792 prohibits a person from intentionally receiving, possessing, carrying, concealing, buying, selling, transferring or transporting any firearm in which the serial number or individual identifying mark has been intentionally obliterated, altered, removed or concealed. Violation of this section may result in a fine of not more than one thousand dollars and imprisonment at hard labor for five years without the benefit of probation, parole or suspension of sentence.

Note that Louisiana law says any gun and intentional obilteration. This has nothing to do with the Gun Control Act of 1968. It also includes antiques if they had identifying marks. It's the intentional removal of an existing identifying mark that matters, nothing else. Guns in .38spl have serial numbers in the United States.

Another person, I believe, on this or the 1911 forum has contacted the ATF about a similar situation. Me? I think I'd just break down the weapon and dispose of the parts separately. If there are any originally unserialed parts, you might consider ebaying them.

Edited to add: Here is a link to the actual Louisiana law. http://www.legis.state.la.us/lss_doc/lss_house/RS\40\Doc 97859.html
Note that antiques and war relics must be inoperable or not have readily available ammo in the U.S. If the antique gun had no identifying number to begin with, it is OK, but if it had one that was removed, it's not OK.

Here is a link to a case, State vs Buggs.
http://www-2.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs.cmu.edu/user/wbardwel/public/nfalist/state_v_buggs.txt
 
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Is this "Model 10" perchance a former military weapon? You see a lot of that with soldiers who brought home sidearms after WWI or WWII and had a momentary attack of "guilty conscience."

I had a friend who wound up in posession of a Victory Model sans serial number. He called up the ATF, they called him back with a serial number to assign to the gun, he had a gunsmith stamp 'er on there: Problem solved.
 
I am not sure what model it is. It has 38 S. & W. Special CTG on the right side of the barrel and the last patent date, of three, on the top of the barrel is Dec29.14. I am going to show it to an authority and see what they can do for me. If I can't keep it, its no big deal.
 
Owen-
You're quite right to check it out with the authorities.....just be selective as to which. Many local cops know less about guns than most of us and will simply assume the worst.

In 1977 I spent the 4th of July Weekend in a Burlington County lockup for possession of a shotgun whose SN had been obliterated. Wasn't 'till after the holiday that they could "check" my story that pre-68 guns required no serial number. It was ugly!
:mad:
Rich
 
I have two guns that don't have serial numbers, but they have "factory numbers" which is now their serial numbers. I can't explain it really, just that the cylinders, the barrel, and the frame are stamped with these numbers so therefore, they became the serial numbers.

I have one gun that doesn't have any numbers but it is a true blue black powder cartriage pistol so therefore, was before the time when serials were mandatory.

I would check with a lawyer and then get him/her to contact the ATF on the matter. If if is an illegal gun, just give it up (your lawyer should be able to turn over the gun without anything coming down on you) and go on. If pre needing serials then you are okay.

I have heard (but will admit that I have no source or link to direct you) that you can get the serial "raised" and get the gun legal again with a gunsmith stamping the original serial into the frame. Like what Tam was speaking of.

Better safe then sorry.

Wayne

*and as a side note, posting this on the internet really isn't a good idea.
 
Yes serial numbers can be "raised" even though they have been filed off. In college we had a field trip to the ATF forensice laboratory in Rockville, Md. They explained to us how they can do that but I forget the specific details. It has to do with the particles in the metal. As the stamp presses the serial number into the surface of the metal, every particle below that is also displaced or pushed down. Even though the surface has been filed off, the particles below the surface are still displaced exactly as the ones at the surface that have been filed away. The forensics experts can retrieve the number from these.
 
http://www.osti.gov/bridge/product.biblio.jsp?osti_id=832893

One method used by crime labs to recover obliterated serial numbers in steel firearms (ferrous samples) is the magnetic particle technique. The use of this method is predicated on the detection of metal deformation present under stamped serial numbers after the visible stamp has been removed. Equipment specialized for this detection is not used in these attempts; a portable magnetic yoke used typically for flaw detection on large weldments or structures, along with dry visible magnetic powders, have been the tools of criminologists working in this area. Crime labs have reported low success rates using these tools [1, 2]. This is not surprising when one considers that little formal development has apparently evolved for use in such investigations since the publication of seminal work in this area some time ago [3]. The aim of this project is to investigate specific aspects of magnetic particle inspection for serial number recovery. This includes attempts to understand the magnetic characteristics of different steels that affect their performance in the test, such as varying results for carbon steels and alloy steels after different thermal and forming treatments. Also investigated are the effects of the nature of the sample magnetization (AC, rectified DC, and true DC) and the use of various detection media, such as visible powders and fluorescent sprays, on test outcome. Additionally, some aspects of surface preparation of firearm samples prior to number recovery were included in this work. The scope of this report includes a brief overview of the magnetic particle inspection method in general and its applications to forensic serial number recovery. This is followed by a description of how such investigations were simulated on lab samples, including a look at how the microstructure of a given steel will affect its performance in the test. Investigations into the serial number recovery in a series of ferromagnetic firearms (both steel and certain stainless steels) will then be presented. Recommendations for modifications to current approaches used in crime labs for serial number recovery, as well as suggestions for future work, conclude this document.
 
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