Misfire

B

Bucksnort1

New member
All,

I'm usually darn good at quality control. When loading hand gun cartridges, I charge a specific number of cases then look in them to see if they look the same. One slipped past me and wound up with a bullet seated with no powder.

I heard no pop from the primer. This was for .357 with a small pistol primer. The bullet did not leave the case.

My question is this. Is there enough pressure from the primer alone to lodge a bullet in a barrel?
 
My question is this. Is there enough pressure from the primer alone to lodge a bullet in a barrel?
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Usually. Often there is enough force to drive the bullet completely into the barrel, sometimes only part way. In a revolver a bullet might stick part way into the barrel, extending back into the cylinder, tying up the gun.

It's actually rather rare to have a squib where the bullet doesn't move at all.

Technically, if the primer didn't go off, its a misfire, if the primer went off, and the powder didn't burn (because it wasn't there) or doesn't burn correctly (partial burn) its called a "squib". Pull the bullet and see if there are any scorch marks on the base. If yes, then the primer fired, and its a squib. If not, then we'll assume the primer didn't go off, making it a misfire.
 
One time, my son bought a new Smith 357. Really nice firearm. My wife, son, daughter-in-law and I went to the range. I took a few hundred 357 handloads. My daughter-in-law was shooting that new Smith, when she encountered a squib load. The bullet left the case and lodged in the forcing cone. The base of the bullet protruded far enough into the cylinder that the cylinder couldn't rotate, thus locking up the action. That squib was one of my hand loads. The gunsmith told us it was "somebody's crappy hand load." I presume that squib had no powder. The gunsmith said if there had been even a very light charge, the bullet would have lodged in the barrel.

That's my experience.
 
I heard no pop from the primer. This was for .357 with a small pistol primer. The bullet did not leave the case.
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You didn't mention a couple of things, so I'll ask, no disrespect intended.
Did you restrike the primer or did you assume it fired on the first strike even though you didn't hear it?
Have you pulled the bullet to verify that there was no powder or are you assuming there was no powder because the bullet didn't leave the case?
Without those details, I'm wondering if you just had a high primer, not fully seated, that just didn't go off to ignite the powder.
 
sometimes only part way. In a revolver a bullet might stick part way into the barrel, extending back into the cylinder, tying up the gun.
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In 34 years of loading, the one squib I loaded did this ^^.

357 Magnum. It was a CCI 500 primer. The bullet was a plated 158 SWC (X-treme). The bullet jumped (taper) crimp but didn't completely exit the case. It stuck out far enough to lock up the cylinder. I had to drive it back into the case with a wooden dowel before I could open the cylinder. It sucked.
 
The above examples show something that's not always understood by a lot of handgun shooters who insist that a good crimp is needed with WW296/H110. The bullet has already broken loose from the crimp due to the primer alone before the powder is all consumed. The crimp is much less effective for burn that most think. I've loaded both of those powders (actually the same powder) with and without crimp and there is virtually no difference in load performance. ....just something to think about.
 
Yes,
At least in my 45ACP.

Hence why i've learned that when i put powder in each case, i seat the bullet in that case.

That happened when i was trying to use my turret press as a single stage press. Hence why i also would recommend a turret press to a beginner.
 
I heard no pop from the primer. This was for .357 with a small pistol primer. The bullet did not leave the case.
Click to expand...
Therefore this has nothing to do with no powder. Your primer did not go off, otherwise the bullet would have left the case. As above did you try a 'restrike'? Sometimes if primer not seated properly a second hit will fire the cartridge ... or you just have a bad primer.
 
Therefore this has nothing to do with no powder. Your primer did not go off, otherwise the bullet would have left the case. As above did you try a 'restrike'? Sometimes if primer not seated properly a second hit will fire the cartridge ... or you just have a bad primer.
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Being something of a bad example of a reloader I can tell you that is not true.

You don't hear a primer going off because there is no boom. I have done it in pistol and rifle.

The bullet may move, but lots of factors such as crimp, bullet, case etc that changes the results from one guys round to the next.

A 357 has a fair amount of room and he used small pistol primer (looks like non magnum). I do know rifles will move a small amount but not into the rifling.

I did at least one no powder fire in a 9mm and it went into the barrel. Very small case, not much crimp (gentle tapered)
 
higgite,

No disrespect taken.

I did restrike the primer.

I did pull the bullet with the inertia hammer type puller. When I pull a bullet, I carefully dump the contents into a loading pan. There was no powder in the pan, only the bullet.

Someone asked about residue on the bottom of the bullet. I examined it carefully and did see what looked like residue; however, I was not able to scrape anything off with my fingernail. These bullets have a graphite coating. I compared the bullet base with a fresh bullet. Bases of the non-loaded bullets are a shiny; whereas, the pulled bullet was not.

I also examined the primer and compared it to fresh primers. To be honest with you, I think the primer did not go pop, or whatever it does, so I think I had a bad primer in a case with no powder.

The case was charged with 5.6 grains of Unique. Primer is a Winchester small pistol and it was seated properly. I am not into mass producing cartridges so I take my time. Each time I seat a primer, I slide my index finger over case head to see if they protrude and sometimes, I place the primed case on the smooth bench to see if it rocks and rolls.
 
Yes. BTDT a couple timed early in my reloading career. My first was in 1970 when using a Lee Loader, 38 Special. My second and last was in the early '80s when I first reloaded for my 44 Magnum on my first bench press. Both times no powder, a sickening "pop", and a bullet lodged in the barrel. That's when I refined my reloading "style" and haven't had an OOPS! since...
 
My question is this. Is there enough pressure from the primer alone to lodge a bullet in a barrel?
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I have never seen a primer fail to launch the bullet into the forcing cone.

And then there is the assume part. Did you assume the primer was busted when the firing pin hit it? And then there is the possibility the primer backed out of the primer pocket.

And there is the possibility you obtained the record amount of crimp/bullet hold.

F. Guffey
 
I heard no pop from the primer. This was for .357 with a small pistol primer. The bullet did not leave the case.
Click to expand...

Therefore this has nothing to do with no powder. Your primer did not go off, otherwise the bullet would have left the case.
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With my squib event (see post #6), there was no sound either. But the primer did indeed discharge. All I heard was "click." I assumed the primer did not detonate; so I attempted to open the cylinder to index it back so I could re-stab the primer. But I couldn't open the cylinder - it was at that moment when I realized I had a no-propellant squib; and the primer did indeed discharge.

So just because there was no sound does not mean the primer didn't detonate. And it doesn't mean the bullet will fully leave the case either. I know this from first-hand experience.
 
"...the primer alone to..." Yep. As mentioned, your primer didn't go off though.
"...don't ask me how I know!..." I know, but I'm not tellin'. snicker.
 
And it doesn't mean the bullet will fully leave the case either.
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The cylinder was locked, it could not be rotated, the hammer could not be pulled back and then there was the trigger' it could not be pulled.

That is what happened to the shooter at the firing range; standing next to me. I stopped shooting and then put all of my stuff up. It was then we offered to help him. We got a dowel and a small hammer to drive the bullet back into the case. We emptied his 357 Model 66 S&W and then gave the pistol back to him. He immediately started loading 6 more rounds into the pistol. He did not have a clue if the 6 rounds had powder, no powder or twice as much powder as recommended. It was not long before he got mad and left. We offered him all the ammo he could use, we offered to help him with his reloading, we offered to give him equipment and components. We could not convince him it was possible to determine the amount of powder in each case before firing.

F. Guffey
 
I also examined the primer and compared it to fresh primers. To be honest with you, I think the primer did not go pop, or whatever it does, so I think I had a bad primer in a case with no powder.
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You clearly have a good handle on this but the odds of a bad primer with a case with no powder in your case and diligence is almost too low to calculate I believe.

Was it a non magnum primer? How heavy a crimp?
 
I also examined the primer and compared it to fresh primers. To be honest with you, I think the primer did not go pop, or whatever it does, so I think I had a bad primer in a case with no powder.
Click to expand...

You clearly have a good handle on this but the odds of a bad primer with a case with no powder in your case and diligence is almost too low to calculate I believe.
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I agree, but I would call it a very happy coincidence. I have only made one squib, it was in 9 mm, and the primer lodged the bullet in the barrel. Not having to drive out a lodged bullet from an uncharged case because the primer didn't go off is extraordinarily good luck in my opinion.
 
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