Minors to be charged as adults?

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Derius_T

New member
I have read alot of stories lately about minors being tried as adults in various instances. Now I am talking about 12 years old and UNDER only. Being charged as adults.....

Do you think this is rational, or appropriate? Are there circumstances where this SHOULD happen to children that young? Thoughts?
 
Minors charged as Adults!!!

Absolutely minors should be charged as adults if the crime is severe enough. Do the crime pay the price!!! Anything less would be a insult to the Victims. There needs to be responsibility for themselves and their crimes. If you're shot dead It doesn't matter if the kid was only 12 years old, or if he was 21. Your still dead and your family deserves to have Justice done for you!!! :mad:
 
I'm mostly with Shooter 973. Why should a 10 year old murderer be given special dispensation, while a 30 year old murderer is given the real deal?

if the crime is severe enough
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What do you have in mind when you say that?
 
What would you say to a twelve year old that accidentally shoots his younger sister? What if that twelve year old had never been taught gun safety by the parents? Should that child still be punished for an accident which was inherently the fault of the parents?

Can the average twelve year old make the conscious decision to end another person's life?


I dunno, it seems like tricky ground. :confused: Seems to me it would be a case-by-case deal depending on the age.
 
That 12 year old should be treated as an adult who had done the same thing. What would you say if an identical scenario occured, but with a 40 year old who was never taught gun safety?

Should that child still be punished for an accident which was inherently the fault of the parents?
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So the parents should be tried because their kid blew another kid away "because they never taught him gun safety?"

Can the average twelve year old make the conscious decision to end another person's life?
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Yup. Why else would there be child soldiers?


Edited after reconsidering one of my statements.
 
What would you say to a twelve year old that accidentally shoots his younger sister? What if that twelve year old had never been taught gun safety by the parents?
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Same thing i would say to an untrained adult that had the same accident. Provided that it is a true accident.

But I believe the discussion is about actually planned out adult type crimes of violence.
The juvenile laws were written originally for dumb kids doing dumb thing like shoplifting apples from aplle carts and other childish indecretions not for crimes the irevocably alter their victims lives.

Perhaps juveniles should not be housed with adults but they should get real punishment for real crimes and their records should not be automatically sealed or expunged just because they turn 18
 
That 12 year old should be treated as an adult who had done the same thing. What would you say if an identical scenario occured, but with a 40 year old who was never taught gun safety?
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A 40 year old man understands what a gun can do and understands death far more clearly than a 12 year old.

So the parents should be tried because their kid blew another kid away "because they never taught him gun safety?"
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Did I say that?

Yup. Why else would there be child soldiers?
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How many places have child soldiers? In how many cultures do twelve year olds truly understand the concept of death?


What if you drop it down to four? What if a four year old kills his sister? Is he a dangerous murderer despite having no idea what he's done?
 
I have a huge conceptual problem with the whole idea of charging minors as adults.

They're minors. That's why we won't let them vote, carry or buy firearms, drive cars, or drink alcohol...because we know they still lack maturity and judgment at that age.

The only reason why those laws exist is because the Retribution crowd has an issue with punishments they deem too short if juveniles "only" get locked up in Juvie until they're 18.
 
I think it's okay as long as the crime is severe enough.

If a kid steals a candy bar or something small, and only does it once, it probably shouldn't be treated too seriously.

A few months back, a high school student forced his way into a house and raped a grandma. Dead serious. Now, for something like this, you need to drop the hammer.
 
But I said 12 or younger. What 8-9-10 year old kids do you know that have the judgement or even say a 15 year old? Do you think the average 10-12 year old kid can truely comprehend death? Or fully understand that thier childish actions have far reaching consequences? Hell there are some adults that have trouble with those concepts.

The case in point that got me thinking was a news story I read where a 10 year old boy set a fire upstairs in his house. He then freaked out when he saw what was happening, (ie fire getting out of control) and smothered it out with some blankets. He then went downstairs. Problem was that the fire wasn't completely out, rekindled itself, and burnt down the house. Everyone escaped except his 12 year old cousin who was asleep upstairs. He is being tried as an adult for arson and murder.

The kid said he was playing with a lighter or matches and accidentally started the fire, got scared when it got out of hand, and thought he put it out.

Or another scenario. 2 brothers and a couple friends are playing 'army men'. One of them, an 8 year old, finds a gun that looks cooler than the one he has. It happens to be his dads .357. He brings it out, finds one of the boys, and shoots him dead. Kid on trial for murder, since he knowingly retrieved the gun from a locked cabinet. Did he realy understand what that gun would do? Had he ever been taught?

I have a real problem with any CHILD that young being held responsible for things like that. Even if you drill it into their heads, they just don't possess the ability to fully comprehend or understand certain things.....
 
12 or under is too young(mostly)

I can see MOST 14-15-16 yr. olds being tried as adults, in some cases....But I have yet to meet a 10-11-12 yr old that is even CLOSE to being mature enough to make any kind of "adult" decision...Thus, I'd be hard pressed to accept them being tried as adults. That's not to say that a serious crime should be taken lightly, just that I feel they should still be treated as children.
 
I can see MOST 14-15-16 yr. olds being tried as adults, in some cases...
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Can you see most 14-15-16 year olds voting, drinking alcohol, driving cars, and buying firearms? Would you support legislative efforts in that direction?
 
Marko: Bad analogy.

Redworm: No, a 12-yr-old who accidentally shoots somebody shouldn't be charged with a crime. Neither should a 50-yr-old who accidentally shoots somebody, unless gross negligence is present.
 
I agree. What if it's intentional? A twelve year old gets into a fight with his little sister, finds dad's gun, figures he sees people get shot on TV all the time and they're fine by the next episode so he puts a hole in his sister's chest. He shot her with the intention of hurting her but without having been taught that shooting people is wrong.

Would it be better to lock that twelve year old away for life, until 18, or not at all? :confused:
 
It depends on the situation. Take the 2 involved in the Arkansas school shooting in Jonesboro. They dressed in Camo, stole the grandfathers van and firearms. Planned and tripped the fire alarm so that the students would have to run outside. They then opened fire. The shooters were 11 and 13, IIRC, and yes, charge them as adults, if found guilty, put them to death.
 
With that much planning involved, especially the bit about the fire alarm, I'd have to agree. So case-by-case basis would probably be the best outlook, I'd imagine.
 
I think the point is at 9, 10, 11, and 12. Do they know right from wrong. It doesn't matter if they comprehend death or not. They know its wrong to be messing with a gun that isn't theirs. And certainly (just watch television, most of them do.) They know that a gun will cause damage if it goes off. Most know how to make them go bang. (Again learned it from television.)
That pulling the trigger should make it go off.

When I was of those ages, my father had a beautiful Colt .38 stubby. I don't remember the model, but I can tell you where he kept it, and that I was not allowed to mess with it for fear of death. (From my father, not the pistol.)
 
Understand this:
The Prison System is not designed to keep people from recidivism....in fact, it almost guarantees the opposite. Which is probably as it should be, as we can't put everyone in Rehab-for-Life....all we can hope is that some will go straight in hopes of never going back; but those are the extreme minority. Prison life teaches predation and survival of the fittest. Simple as that.

The benefit to society of putting true criminals in prison is to keep them from perpetrating crimes while they are there. When they get out, they're pretty much guaranteed to be predators again. In fact, they're pretty much guaranteed to be Better Predators.

So, the question on the floor is this:
Who do we have a better chance of turning around by alternative sentences:
- The 48 year old 3 time looser.
- The 26 year old career criminal, caught for the first time after a life of violent crime.
or
- The 12 year old child who's value system may not be fully formed.

As Marko points up, we (appropriately) grant that 12 year old none of the Rights of an adult, recognizing that he/she does not fully understand the consequences of his/her actions. If we're to grant them all of the Responsibilities of adulthood, they should have the right to drive, refuse school locker searches, buy alcohol and cigarettes, quit school, move onto the streets, marry, vote, own firearms and engage in sex with adults.

Personal Responsibility is an issue near and dear to all our hearts. But the flip side is Personal Rights. To (appropriately) deny that child on the Rights side, while holding him to the Responsibility side would be unthinkable to any other class of Americans.

So, as usual, be careful what you ask for. You just might end up on the short end of that Class Discrimination stick. You are all firearms owners.
Rich
 
If it is something along the lines of a violent felony, and definitely premediatated, yes.

Anything else? No.
 
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