Minimum required for BP pistol shooting?

S

spacecoast

New member
I would like to try my hand at a few rounds of BP shooting and am seeking info on the minimum supplies I will need to get started. I have a Remington New Model Army revolver (original, from 1864) that's in good shape. I also have a tin of approximately 70-80 Remington No. 11 percussion caps, but that's it.

I know I will need .44 cal lead balls and some kind of powder, and I believe some kind of sealant for the chambers to prevent chain firing, but is there anything else? My thoughts are to load one chamber and fire it to make sure I have the right formula, and then perhaps shoot a cylinder or two's worth of rounds the next time I go to the range.

Beyond that, I don't know where I will go with it, but I think that will suffice for a first try. I also understand that hot soapy water will suffice for cleanup afterward.

What do you recommend?
 
Aside from powder, cap, and ball, I consider this to be bare minumum.
-Some form of lubrication. Either a soft lube like Bore Butter smeared over the ball or a lubed felt wad like Wonder Wads beneath the ball and over the powder. The main purpose of this is to keep fouling soft. Preventing chainfires is a secondary function, but if you're using the right size ball (.451 or .454) chainfires are almost impossible.
-Either an adjustable powder measure or powder flask. Flasks can use various spouts sized to fit whatever you're shooting. .44 cals typically take between 25 and 40 grains.
-Nipple wrench. You don't need it to shoot, but you will need it for cleaning.
-Cleaning kit. You really only need a jag, but you can get a Hoppe's .45 cal pistol cleaning kit that has a bunch of goodies for about $15.
-A good set of screwdrivers. Don't go buggering up the screws on your original Remington.

I clean using hot water, no soap. I never really found it necessary. Even cold water will work.
You will also need to oil the gun after cleaning. Preferably something not petroleum-based, as that tends to worsen fouling.

Good luck. :cool:
 
"minimum required"??? Ahhhh . . . the only minimum requirement that I know of is to be as crazy as the rest of us! :D

Sounds like you got a pretty good handle on it . . . only problem is, once you smell the sulphur . . . it just gets worse! Enjoy! :)
 
Kappe -

Thanks for the info, are you saying that either a .451" or .454" ball should work? And what kind of powder would be best to start? Does powder weight/volume vary by brand (like smokeless) or are they pretty much all the same? I need to look at flasks and powder measures to see what my options are. Obviously, in this gun I will favor the lighter loads. We have a new Bass Pro near us and I think they carry a lot of BP stuff.

I do have a nipple wrench (purchased from Bass Pro), but I don't think the nipples on this Remington are going anywhere as the gun has sat unused for probably 40 years. I soaked them in oil but haven't been able to budge them with a wrench. Is it absolutely necessary to remove the nipples for cleaning?

I have regular gun oil for after cleaning - presumably that is OK?
 
I remove my nipples probably after every 5 shootings or so, just to keep them loose so that the can be removed and they don't get frozen.

If they are already frozen, well, I guess that's that. You can try making a mixture of 50/50 acetone/transmission fluid and soaking the cylinder in that. Might loosen up the nipples.

are you saying that either a .451" or .454" ball should work?
Click to expand...

The only way to know is to either mic the chamber or load a ball. When the ball is pressed into the chamber it needs to shave a small ring of lead from the ball all the way around. This is how you know you have a gas-tight fit. If you shoot undersized balls you are inviting a chain fire.

My Uberti Walker likes a .457 ball.

In my opinion, if you are going to load and fire one chamber, you may as well do them all.

I recommend 20 grains of 3F black powder, some cream of wheat filler, and pack the ball down on top of it.

Steve
 
All literature I've read on cleaning cap & ball revolvers involved removing the nipples. I do not know what problems might accrue from not being able to remove the nipples.

You got the skinny from maillemaker on ball size.

Regarding powder, powder measures are calibrated for real blackpowder. Pyrodex is a volumetric equivalent substitute.
Most every other blackpowder substitute is not a volumetric equivalent to BP. Triple 7 for instance is 15% more powerful than BP.
Either FFFg or FFg grades can be used for your revolver.

Most regular gun oils like Rem Oil are petroleum based. You can use it, but it'll bind with the fouling once you start shooting. In essence it does the opposite of what the lube is supposed to do. Instead of keeping it soft and goopy, it creates a hard tar-like substance and is harder to clean.
I recommend Ballistol if you can find it.
 
The only way to know is to either mic the chamber or load a ball. When the ball is pressed into the chamber it needs to shave a small ring of lead from the ball all the way around. This is how you know you have a gas-tight fit. If you shoot undersized balls you are inviting a chain fire.
Click to expand...

The chambers of my Remington seem to range from .447" up to .451", so if I want to shave a small ring of lead it seems I might want to go with the .454" balls.

Here's my shopping list:
  • .454" lead balls
  • FFFg or FFg powder
  • Powder measuring device (flask or ??) - look for 20-25 grains
  • Bore butter or wonder wads
Anything else?
 
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Howdy

I see you have an original, not a reproduction.

I suggest buying a few diameters of ball and seeing what works best. Be sure the balls are pure lead, no tin or antimony added. You want pure lead so they are soft enough that they will size into the chambers without putting too much stress on the loading lever. Hornady makes swaged lead balls in a variety of diameters.

It's going to be a bit of a guessing game to get the exact right diameter for your chambers. If you have an inside measuring micrometer, that would be ideal, but they do not grow on trees. Using the inside measuring jaws on a caliper is inherently inaccurate with small holes. When the ball is squeezed into the chamber, you want a nice even ring of lead shaved off. The more lead that is shaved off, the better, as that adds length to the seal. But you don't want to be shoving so hard that you damage that antique loading lever.

Lastly, I stopped putting lube on top of the balls in my C&B revolvers many years ago. Instead I use lubricated felt wads between the powder and the ball. Once I discovered Wonder Wads I stopped putting Crisco over the balls. In case an errant spark makes its way past a void in the lead to steel seal, a 1/4" thick felt wad makes a better spark arrester than a thin, partly melted bit of runny goo. I find that extra lubrication is unnecessary, and the felt wad scrubs out some of the fouling as it goes down the bore. There are those who are concerned that the lube from a lubed wad will adulterate the powder, but I have not found that to be a concern, as long as I fire the load relatively quickly. I would not put a loaded C&B revolver with lubed felt wads away in the safe for any period of time, but I wouldn't put a loaded revolver away anyway.

You might want to try firing a few caps with no powder or ball, to make sure they fit. Caps come in a variety of sizes and they are not all standardized. One company's #11 caps may or may not fit the same as another company's #11 caps.

You want enough powder in the chambers so that the ball is compressing it. Too little powder and the ball will stop at the smaller diameter in the chamber without compressing the powder. You want slight compression and no air. Listen and feel for the crunch when you seat the ball. Of course if you have a wad in there, you will not feel a crunch.

The adjustable powder measures with the sliding bar marked in grains are good enough for C&B. No, not all powders weigh the same, different brands weigh different amounts, but generally speaking an adjustable measure will work fine.
 
After church this morning I made a quick trip over to Bass Pro. Below are the results. No .454" lead balls to be had, but at least there was a place on the shelf for them. :( I'll check back later, hopefully they aren't as hard to get as .22 ammo. I didn't see any Ballistol or Wonder Wads or real black powder (or shelf space for any of these).

I was tempted to invest in the Traditions loading stand ($25), but thought I could probably get by without it for one range trip.

The revolver powder measure accommodates up to 50 grains, so that seems like a safe bet, but before I break open the powder, is this OK or should I hold out for real FFFG black powder?

I also have an old flask that presumably will work for transporting powder to the range. Two questions -

What's the best way to get the powder in the flask?

The flask has a pretty tiny hole at the end, does black powder flow freely enough to use that for pouring into the measure?

photo83_zps15bfe77e.jpg
 
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You actually need very little. Powder, a measure, grease, balls & basic rod/patches cleaning supplies should do you:cool:

However (& it's a biggie) part of the fun is collecting all the $5.00 "Unearthed Arcana" to quote the old D&D games, that's 1/2 the fun. Based on that you're probably going to eventually end up with a collection like this::eek:
DSCF9288_zpsd7881d55.jpg
 
The Pyrodex is fine but you won't see real black on a shelf, you have to ask for it. The spout should unscrew from the flask and get a small funnel for filling. Real bp will go through a fairly small hole but Pyro is bulkier so it depends on just how small the hole is. Make sure there's no oil left in the chambers before you load it or you will be doing some major cussing.:D You might even want to pop a cap on all six before loading.
 
You can actually buy a cap for the original powder container that also has a funnel built in to allow pouring into your measure. You could possibly use it as a dual function pouring spout for both measure & powder flask.:cool:
It looks like this:
22-7223can-cap.jpg
 
Wogpotter - thanks for the suggestion, I'm thinking maybe an empty squeeze bottle with a spout similar to what you show would be a good temporary powder container too, and would allow me to fill the powder measure. I'm pretty sure the flask I have won't work, the hole is really small, smaller than a nipple opening.
 
Wow, you actually found Remington primers! They're pretty hit or miss in many locations.

I would make sure the old pistol is safe to fire and if it may be wiser to retire it to preserve its collector value. A little shooting here and there may be all right but if you jump in to BP with both feet it may be time to look at replicas.
 
You don't have to have a flask. Just use the original with the spout & pour into the measure to load the chambers. Just remember to pop the plug back into the opening in the spout between loads to prevent sparks getting into the powder jar!:eek:
 
Finally got the balls and also found the wads online from Cabelas. Prices seemed pretty reasonable at $15 for the balls and $10 for the wads.

Not having a flask, I plan to use the appropriate size dipper to load the chambers. From this chart - http://www.curtrich.com/BPConversionSheet.htm - it appears that I need to use a 1.67 cc dipper for a load of Pyrodex P equivalent to 25 grains of black powder.

Does that sound correct?

Another question - now that I have the wads, is there any reason to keep the Bore Butter or can I return that to Bass Pro?

One more question - I plan to load and shoot a single chamber, then load and shoot all 6. Presumably I can force the balls almost into the chamber with my fingers and then finish seating them with the gun's loading lever. I understand that I don't add the caps until the cylinder is back on the gun, the chambers are loaded and I'm almost ready to fire. Any problems with that logic?

IMG_1835_zps0151f566.jpg
 
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