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MIM parts in CZs
- Thread starter Shmackey
- Start date
Eric Larsen
New member
From everything Ive seen personally and heard on the forum. NOPE...just machined 4140 ordinance steel. I guess you never know about the newer guns..seems everyone is jumping on the MIM bandwagon.
Shoot well
Shoot well
There are some cast parts in CZ's - for example the slide stop lever-pin, safety lever... That was the reason to get Tanfoglio slide stop, which is made from 2 parts - the pin is machined from bar-stock, and the lever is machined cast part - they both are joined by pressing together.
In fact, my new CZ-75 B SA has strange cast-like marks inside the slide - looking thru ejection port inside to the left side. Unfotunately, I sold the gun just recently, so I can not make picture to display what I mean.
RB
In fact, my new CZ-75 B SA has strange cast-like marks inside the slide - looking thru ejection port inside to the left side. Unfotunately, I sold the gun just recently, so I can not make picture to display what I mean.
RB
George Hill
Staff Alumnus
Metal Injection Molding.
It is a higher tech version of casting.
That being said, I don't see the TZ version of the pin to be any advantage.
It is a higher tech version of casting.
That being said, I don't see the TZ version of the pin to be any advantage.
Eric Larsen
New member
MIM is indeed a cheaper and higher tech than casting. But from what Ive read the results are less pleasurable. It seems MIM parts just dont hold up like cast parts do. One thing that differs between the two, MIM parts dont need as much machining as a true cast part. If you see machining marks..the odds are it is cast.
Shoot well
Shoot well
Destructo6
New member
I just looked at my CZ-75's controls and they are machined. What makes you say they're cast? Also, is this a 'B' version?
The current version of safety levers and slidestop on CZ-75 are MIM, you can see on some of the parts the rough non machined surface, especialy on the inside side facing the slide and also the outline of the levers are not machined sometimes - left side safety lever on my CZ-75 B SA was sporting some visible sand form surface (www.czsight.wz.cz). I personally felt it more asthetics than functional problem though.
I have seen the process last year in CZ-UB factory, they use tech-paraffin/wax for the lever models and then they build up a form from tech-sand on it (extremely fine sand layered in seeral thin layers on it. The they bake it, so the wax will liquidate and flush out and the sand form hardens.
I have seen the process last year in CZ-UB factory, they use tech-paraffin/wax for the lever models and then they build up a form from tech-sand on it (extremely fine sand layered in seeral thin layers on it. The they bake it, so the wax will liquidate and flush out and the sand form hardens.
Alternatives to MIM
Forgings, castings and my personal favorite, EDM. EDM entails the use of sparks to "chip" away any unwanted metal. It allows you to take the grade of metal you want and remove the unwanted mass. Thus, if you start with a hardened piece of steel, you'll finish with a part that is hardened throughout. Complete interchangeability without fitting. I've seen some trial pieces where this round metal bar would slide into a block. Oil it and you have to drive the bar out of the block. Dry and it goes in and out easily. It's that precise.
S&W uses EDM to make their pistol bbls. The process was invented by the Russians in WW II (they really did and it's no Cold War boast).
Forgings, castings and my personal favorite, EDM. EDM entails the use of sparks to "chip" away any unwanted metal. It allows you to take the grade of metal you want and remove the unwanted mass. Thus, if you start with a hardened piece of steel, you'll finish with a part that is hardened throughout. Complete interchangeability without fitting. I've seen some trial pieces where this round metal bar would slide into a block. Oil it and you have to drive the bar out of the block. Dry and it goes in and out easily. It's that precise.
S&W uses EDM to make their pistol bbls. The process was invented by the Russians in WW II (they really did and it's no Cold War boast).
Destructo6
New member
EDM sure is a fantastic invention. It's revolutionized tool and die making as well as many others. One of the many great aspects is that it makes no difference to the EDM machine whether the metal is hardened or not, so why not cut after heat treat (less chance of warpage)?
This is certainly one arena where doing it the old fashioned way is inferior. Imagine trying to make a square hole, for a die, with .2" of the wall straight and the rest taper out at .5 degrees by hand (so to speak). Yow! Wire EDM can do it in about 15 minutes.
So you're not too far from the CZ factory, eh? How about sneaking out the prints for the Vz-58 and sending them on over here? We've been getting parts kits, but good receivers on which to build are pretty scarce.
This is certainly one arena where doing it the old fashioned way is inferior. Imagine trying to make a square hole, for a die, with .2" of the wall straight and the rest taper out at .5 degrees by hand (so to speak). Yow! Wire EDM can do it in about 15 minutes.
So you're not too far from the CZ factory, eh? How about sneaking out the prints for the Vz-58 and sending them on over here? We've been getting parts kits, but good receivers on which to build are pretty scarce.
Ahhhhh! As usual in these threads, the production processes of sand-casting, investment casting (also called the lost wax method), die-casting (injecting molten metal into a permanent mold, usually steel), and MIM (Metal Injection Molding, also called powder metal in the past) are being confused and abused!
There are currently receivers and frames on the market that are forged, billet machined, investment cast, die-cast, and maybe even sand cast (though I doubt it). And some slides are bent up of sheet metal and welded. And they all seem to work.
Engineers take into consideration the geometry, material requirements, tolerances, and finish requirements when designing something. Casting processes give you a lot more design flexibility, a near-net shape, smoother out-of-mold finish, and can be produced in higher volumes at lower cost. MIM parts can be cast of alloy or stainless steeles, non-ferrous materials like titanium, or even combinations (including lubricants). Right now, it's mostly used on fairly small parts but can make parts up to 1/2 lb or so.
There are two types of EDM - plunge, and wire. Plunge EDM sinks an electrode into a part, and usually makes some sort of complex, blind hole. Wire EDM machines can have five axis control, but the cut surface is always a straight line. The production rate is pretty low, but the rate doesn't vary as much for hardened metals as machining, and there is little waste.
Some "plastic" materials have amazing properties as well, have much better lubricity and either don't require lubrication or can have it molded in . A well-engineered gun with MIM, investment cast, and plastic parts might function much better than one made strictly from forgings and machined parts.
Buy a gun that is proven reliable for your intended purpose, and fits your hand and budget. Be flexible on the production processes used, and you will get a better value. Get modern!
There are currently receivers and frames on the market that are forged, billet machined, investment cast, die-cast, and maybe even sand cast (though I doubt it). And some slides are bent up of sheet metal and welded. And they all seem to work.
Engineers take into consideration the geometry, material requirements, tolerances, and finish requirements when designing something. Casting processes give you a lot more design flexibility, a near-net shape, smoother out-of-mold finish, and can be produced in higher volumes at lower cost. MIM parts can be cast of alloy or stainless steeles, non-ferrous materials like titanium, or even combinations (including lubricants). Right now, it's mostly used on fairly small parts but can make parts up to 1/2 lb or so.
There are two types of EDM - plunge, and wire. Plunge EDM sinks an electrode into a part, and usually makes some sort of complex, blind hole. Wire EDM machines can have five axis control, but the cut surface is always a straight line. The production rate is pretty low, but the rate doesn't vary as much for hardened metals as machining, and there is little waste.
Some "plastic" materials have amazing properties as well, have much better lubricity and either don't require lubrication or can have it molded in . A well-engineered gun with MIM, investment cast, and plastic parts might function much better than one made strictly from forgings and machined parts.
Buy a gun that is proven reliable for your intended purpose, and fits your hand and budget. Be flexible on the production processes used, and you will get a better value. Get modern!