Mil Surplus 1911's, 1927's: Any available outthere?

M

mept

New member
Occasionally I have seen adds for inexpensive old 1927's from Argintina. Anybody have any experience with them?
I also read in a gun rag about a shop which took one and did some of the essential mods to upgrade the gun ie. ramp, polishing, re-finish, new sights, etc.
The review obtained the gun from Century Arms, which no longer has any posted adds for these surplus 1927's.
Also, is their any real difference between them and the 1911's? My understanding it is the same pre-war gun built with Colt tooling, built in Argintina with good (pre-war good) quality. Any changes? Any comments? Any thing you would definately change with yours? Thanks.
 
I saw that magazine article as well. Bear in mind that with whatever you pay for the gun, plus the added trip to the gunsmith, you can probably buy Kimber or a Springfield for that; unless, you do all the changes (if need be) yourself.

I'd also check Gunlist, Shotgun News, and local gunshows. I don't know about finding one for $200. They used to cost that much but I've seen their price steadily increasing. I've seen them for as much as $600 (choke!) and they aren't worth that much.

There are supposedly a few types, I think www.m1911.org has some info on them. You can also do a search on this forum, I know I've seen other posts on them. Another site is www.gunandknife.com They have a 1911 message board. Additionally, check www.shooters.com under their "talk" section; they have a search function and you can look up archived comments about them.

Generally, I've heard that they're good guns and if you can get them cheap enough, you can tinker around with them and most people nowadays want to change everything out of them.

Since these guns were built on Colt tooling, all parts interchange with 1911A1 parts. They are used guns so condition can vary. If you can find one for $200 or so, I'd buy it. I wouldn't go higher than $350-400 because you can buy a Springfield for a little more than that.
HTH
 
Yeah, I did the same search recently. All I wanted was a basic GI type 1911 for plinking. I missed out on buying a 1927 when they were around $250 and I've also seen them on Gunsamerica for up to $600.

The only "cheap" .45's I've found recently are the Baelister Molina's. Somebody has them in Shotgun News for $169 or $189 refinished. While not fully interchangeable with a Colt they are supposed to be good hardball guns anyway. I'd prefer another 1911 pattern but I'm tempted to pick up a Baelister just for plinking anyway. They seem to be drying up also which is another reason I'm thinking of getting one.

They used to be all over the SG News but they seem to be getting a little harder to find now. I'd jsut hate to miss out on another cheap but decent .45 now and then see them going for $600 on Gunsamerica 2 years from now again!!
 
A friend bought a NIB Norinco .45 this week from a local dealer for $289. That's as good a deal as you're likely to find.

The Argentinian Sistema may be as good or better a gun -- true 1911A1 clones -- if you can find one. Generally in the $350 range.

The Ballestar Molinas and Ballestar Rigaud are also pretty good guns, but only barrels and magazines are interchangeable with a 1911. (They don't have grip safeties, for example, and most internal parts are different.)
 
Have you seen the Systema guns arund recently Walt? I haven't found them at the local shows and they seem to have dried up in Shotgun News. Gunsamerica.com has them but as was stated above they want a ridiculous $600 for them!! $350 seems a bit more reasonable considering they were dealer cost around $250 - $280 just last year.
 
In Shotgun News a while back, KY Imports had Argentine 1911's; one for $350 and the other for $450(?). They've probably gone up by now as gun prices seem to rise daily. I saw a 1927 for $600 at a gun show and I almost asked if they seller were insane. Then again, I see most dealers trying to sell way too high. GunsAmerica's prices are all high as well. People selling used guns for more than a new gun costs. They seem to forget that, unless it's a collecter's item, no matter what condition the gun is in, if it's used, you can't sell it for current market price. $600 will buy you practically buy you a NIB Kimber. Better look out, pretty soon people will be selling the Ballester's for $600.

I've also heard that the Norinco 1911's are good and the ones I've seen looked pretty well made, it all depends on condition. These are also on the rise in terms of price. If you are interested in a GI gun, I'd buy either the Sprinfield Mil-Spec or seek out a Remington Rand or Ithaca if you can find one cheap.
 
Both the Norinco and the Sistema are good guns, and I will vouch for both. The B-M and B-R are, IMO, not as good. But if you don't have to have a military pistol, and cheap is definable, don't overlook Colt commercial guns pre-70. I saw three post-war (circa 1960) Colt Gov't Model .45 (identical to M1911A1) for $400-450 at a gun show two weeks ago. These are fine guns, better than the clones.

Jim
 
Seems I've got a better memory than some other people 'round here ! ;)
From http://www.gunsamerica.com
****Ballester Molina $189.00 :D Factory refinished, in used good condition. Accepts factory Colt 1911 mags. Very reliable, and inexpensive 1911 variant****
********
NIB Norinco .45 1911A1 Look! $389.00
********
HAFDASA Ballester-Molina .45 $385.00
********
Ballester-Molina pistol, caliber .45 ACP. Copy of the Colt 1911A1. Complete, original and in very good condition. $385.00
********
MK IV/ SERIES 80 $450.00 VERY CLEAN GUN. Colt Govt. MK IV-70 $495.00 Colt Government MK IV Series 70 .45ACP Pistol. 70G prefix, blue, Colt extra wide grips, "Kensight" adjustable rear, wide, high front sight. A very tight target pistol in excellent condition. Shows use but no abuse. Price reduced (Close-out).
*******
NIB Norinco .45 1911A1 W/Xtras $389.00
*******
Argentine FMAP 1927 .45 ACP $450.00 Argentine Model 1927 pistol, caliber .45 ACP. Made by DGFM-FMAP . Marked "Ejercito Argentino Sist. Colt Cal. 11.25mm Mod 1927" Excellent original condition. Not reworked. $450.00
*******
Norinco 45 caliber $400.00 NIB, never been shot Norinco model 45. Banned from import in 1994. Comes with box, two mags, manual, and cleaning rod. Send to FFL dealer only. Buyer pays for shipping.

------------------
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Bought a Sistema 1927 for a little over $300 hundred a couple of months ago. Exact copy of 1911A1. Parts are full interchangeable. Put rosewood slim grips (would have to put slim grips on any 1911 I own so I don't count that as a real expense) and had a trigger job with new hammer and sear. New extractor and ejector put in and wolf recoil spring. Now mind you the pistol as I bought it would shoot clover leafs at 10 yards with the origional barrel and trigger, so most of what I am doing is playing. Polished the ramp. This thing will eat anything I feed it. All told, I have a little over $500 invested in the gun. I have a match barrel on order and thinking about putting new sights on it(has the origional sights). Went to a show this weekend looking for another and the best I could find was $450 and it needed lots of work although the steel is good. Most were in the $500 to $550 range.I guess the word is out. The steel in these guns is good and workmanship is excellent. This thing already shoots like a $1000+ pistol. Like I said, just playing.
 
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