Mil Dot or Milliradian?
- Thread starter jabraun98
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allaroundhunter
New member
They are measuring the same exact thing.
Is your question MOA adjustments or mil adjustments?
If so, I much prefer a mil crosshairs with mil adjustments. AKA a mil/mil scope.
ETA: If you are asking mil lines vs mil dots (as Jimro pointed out), then I prefer lines.
Is your question MOA adjustments or mil adjustments?
If so, I much prefer a mil crosshairs with mil adjustments. AKA a mil/mil scope.
ETA: If you are asking mil lines vs mil dots (as Jimro pointed out), then I prefer lines.
trg42wraglefragle
New member
Mil is much easier to use if you understand the metric system, not that it's very hard to learn.
1mil is equal to 10cm/100mm (or 4 inches if you really have too) at 100 meters, so there is no need to times or divide anything buy 3.6 like you have to do with moa, its just simple multiples of 10 to deal with.
1mil is equal to 10cm/100mm (or 4 inches if you really have too) at 100 meters, so there is no need to times or divide anything buy 3.6 like you have to do with moa, its just simple multiples of 10 to deal with.
Mil Dot or Milliradian?
Mil is an abbreviation of Mil Radian. A radian is nothing more then the arc of a circle. Draw a circle, from the center draw a line to the edge of the circle. This is called a "radious". Measure the radius. Take that measurement and move alone the edge of the circle the same distance. Draw a line from the end of that measurement back to the center of the circle. What you end up with is a triangle. That triangle is called a radian.
Now if you was to was to multiply pi times 2, you'd end up with 6.2832. That is how many radians are in a circle.
If you were to divide the radian by 1000 you'd get 6283.2. 1/1000 = a Mil.
So a Mil is nothing more then 1/1000 of a radian. Hence a Mil-Radian.
So when you say a Mil vs Mil-radian you're actually talking the same thing.
AND, Mil measurements are NOT metric, they are trig. a form of math. It can be in inches, yards, feet, centimeters, meters, miles or what ever measurement you want to use. Don't get hung up on the metric system.
They aren't metric any more the MOA is metric. Its just a different way or measurement of an arc.
For example there are 21,600 minutes in a circle, (360degrees times 60 Minutes = 21,600)
So if there are 21,600 minutes in a circle, and we know from above there are 6283.2 Mil-radians in the same circle we can divided 21,600 by 6,283.2 we get 3.4377 Minutes of angle per every Mil-radian.
You're measuring the same thing, the arc, just using different measurements.
Like saying comparing 3 feet or 36 inches. They're the same thing, a yard.
A Mil-radian is the same thing. A measurement of an arc. If you use metric measurements then the Mil-radian is going to be in metric. If you use yards/inches etc, then the Mil-radian is going to be in yards/inches.
Don't get hung up on metrics.
But to ask do you use a mil dot or a mil-radian radical in your scope, one would think does the scope have Mils (dots) or Mil-radian, or 1000 dots. That would clutter up the scope where you couldn't use it. So we use Mils, or dots representing mils. The mil/mil scope means the scope has mils and the adjustments are in parts of a mil, normally 1/10 of a mil per click.
Hope this clears up some of the confusion.
Mainly I chimed in because the comments of Mil/Mil Radian being a metric measurement. That is confusing to say the least. Not to mention wrong.
Mil is an abbreviation of Mil Radian. A radian is nothing more then the arc of a circle. Draw a circle, from the center draw a line to the edge of the circle. This is called a "radious". Measure the radius. Take that measurement and move alone the edge of the circle the same distance. Draw a line from the end of that measurement back to the center of the circle. What you end up with is a triangle. That triangle is called a radian.
Now if you was to was to multiply pi times 2, you'd end up with 6.2832. That is how many radians are in a circle.
If you were to divide the radian by 1000 you'd get 6283.2. 1/1000 = a Mil.
So a Mil is nothing more then 1/1000 of a radian. Hence a Mil-Radian.
So when you say a Mil vs Mil-radian you're actually talking the same thing.
AND, Mil measurements are NOT metric, they are trig. a form of math. It can be in inches, yards, feet, centimeters, meters, miles or what ever measurement you want to use. Don't get hung up on the metric system.
They aren't metric any more the MOA is metric. Its just a different way or measurement of an arc.
For example there are 21,600 minutes in a circle, (360degrees times 60 Minutes = 21,600)
So if there are 21,600 minutes in a circle, and we know from above there are 6283.2 Mil-radians in the same circle we can divided 21,600 by 6,283.2 we get 3.4377 Minutes of angle per every Mil-radian.
You're measuring the same thing, the arc, just using different measurements.
Like saying comparing 3 feet or 36 inches. They're the same thing, a yard.
A Mil-radian is the same thing. A measurement of an arc. If you use metric measurements then the Mil-radian is going to be in metric. If you use yards/inches etc, then the Mil-radian is going to be in yards/inches.
Don't get hung up on metrics.
But to ask do you use a mil dot or a mil-radian radical in your scope, one would think does the scope have Mils (dots) or Mil-radian, or 1000 dots. That would clutter up the scope where you couldn't use it. So we use Mils, or dots representing mils. The mil/mil scope means the scope has mils and the adjustments are in parts of a mil, normally 1/10 of a mil per click.
Hope this clears up some of the confusion.
Mainly I chimed in because the comments of Mil/Mil Radian being a metric measurement. That is confusing to say the least. Not to mention wrong.
Yup, that would do it.
Lots of fine scopes out, many have so much crap in the reticle you can't use them.
Plain Mil Dots are great. They don't clutter up the scope and easy to use. Lets say you're hunting deer. Deer are about 5 ft long on the average. So if it fits 5 mils then its about 335 yard away. Or 18 inches from top to back meaning if its fits 1.5 mils then its 335 yards away.
The vital area of a deer is about 10, so choose your point blank range where the bullet is never over 5 inches low or 5 inches high out to 335 yards and you don't have to worry about hold over/under at normal hunting ranges.
Then of course you can learn to use the Mil Dots for ranging. Just takes practice.
Your scope will come with directions.
Lots of fine scopes out, many have so much crap in the reticle you can't use them.
Plain Mil Dots are great. They don't clutter up the scope and easy to use. Lets say you're hunting deer. Deer are about 5 ft long on the average. So if it fits 5 mils then its about 335 yard away. Or 18 inches from top to back meaning if its fits 1.5 mils then its 335 yards away.
The vital area of a deer is about 10, so choose your point blank range where the bullet is never over 5 inches low or 5 inches high out to 335 yards and you don't have to worry about hold over/under at normal hunting ranges.
Then of course you can learn to use the Mil Dots for ranging. Just takes practice.
Your scope will come with directions.
I have a number of scope with mil dot reticle and moa turrets.
Bad idea.
I like MOA and make my drop and windage charts in moa and in inches.
I have a scope that is MOA turret and MOA reticle, but it is first focal plane.
Another bad idea. The reticle disappears on low power, not much good for fast shots.
Either system works, it depends on what you are used to.
Like Ford vs Chevy, table saw vs radial arm saw, beef vs chicken, ...
Either one will get you there.
At 100 yards:
1 milliradian click = 3.16"
0.1 milliradiansclick =0.316"
1 moa click = 1"
1/2 moa click = 1/2"
1/4 moa click = 1/4"
You have a target at 400 yards in a 13 mph wind.
You can dial it in with either system, but you need to be accustomed to your system if you want to do it fast.
Bad idea.
I like MOA and make my drop and windage charts in moa and in inches.
I have a scope that is MOA turret and MOA reticle, but it is first focal plane.
Another bad idea. The reticle disappears on low power, not much good for fast shots.
Either system works, it depends on what you are used to.
Like Ford vs Chevy, table saw vs radial arm saw, beef vs chicken, ...
Either one will get you there.
At 100 yards:
1 milliradian click = 3.16"
0.1 milliradiansclick =0.316"
1 moa click = 1"
1/2 moa click = 1/2"
1/4 moa click = 1/4"
You have a target at 400 yards in a 13 mph wind.
You can dial it in with either system, but you need to be accustomed to your system if you want to do it fast.
A mil is 3.6 inches or 3.438 MOA. (MOA being 1.047 inches)
There are 21,600 min. in a circle. There are 6,283.2 mils in a circle.
21600/6283.2 = 3.4377
Using inches. At 100 yards there is 3600 inches. A mil is 1/1000 of 3600, which is 3.6 inches.
Therefore .1 mil would be .36 inches on your Mil/Mil scope at 100 yards.
I would not get the mil-dot but thats just my opinion
I would think about the size of the reticle when using the subtensions or mil-dots for hold over . The reticle above is moa but still gives you a good idea how thin the lines are . The size of the lines in mills is .04 mils . At 1k that would equal around 2" of the target being blocked by the reticles lines . The mil-dot is 1 complete mil in size and at 1k that would be about 3 feet of the target being blocked by the dot of the reticle . This would only be on hold overs and if you are dialed in with your turrets you will be using the crosshairs and my point would be a non issue .
just something to think about
allaroundhunter
New member
A mil dot is a circle of diameter 1 milliradian. That means at 1,000 yards, that single mil 'dot' is blocking out an area of about 1,018 square inches or about 7 square feet. That is a whole lot of target area to be blocked out by a reticle. Usually, however, you aren't using the dots as windage or elevation holdovers when shooting at that distance.
I think what he is saying that at 1000 yards the dot on the recital blocks out the target.
But all mil dot scopes I've seen, there is no dot on the cross hair, the dots are spaced up, down, left and right of the cross hair, so its the wire itself that's on the target, its no different then any other rectal.
The Mil scope has its advantage, the MOA scope has its advantages, and the MIL/MOA scope has its advantages, it just depends on what your shooting.
An example, I shoot 1000 yard matches. Most of these matches has an any rifle/any sight and any rifle iron sights. I use the same rifle, remove the irons and put on the scope. My irons are MOA so I want an MOA scope. I know the scoring rings in inches, so I want a MOA adjustments.
In hunting I like a MIL/MOA scope. I know the animal size in inches so I want to be able to adjust in MOA, but I like the MIL for ranging or, for use of my Point Blank Zero. Meaning, I know the size of the animal in inches, and the vital area in inches. So I figure how many Mils the animal will fill to keep me in range of my PBZ, to keep my shots in the vital are without hold over/under.
For example, an antelope is about 15 inches from the top of its back to the bottom of its stomach. So if I sight my rifle in for 275 yards, I can stay in the vital area from the muzzle to 325 yards. Using the mil dot, if its 1.25 mils, I don't have to adjust, or hold over. If its more, then I can adjust in MOA because I know the size of the animal.
If its out of range, I like the mil dot for ranging, laser range finders suck on the prairie.
As I said, depends on how you shoot. I don't want to be limited.
But all mil dot scopes I've seen, there is no dot on the cross hair, the dots are spaced up, down, left and right of the cross hair, so its the wire itself that's on the target, its no different then any other rectal.
The Mil scope has its advantage, the MOA scope has its advantages, and the MIL/MOA scope has its advantages, it just depends on what your shooting.
An example, I shoot 1000 yard matches. Most of these matches has an any rifle/any sight and any rifle iron sights. I use the same rifle, remove the irons and put on the scope. My irons are MOA so I want an MOA scope. I know the scoring rings in inches, so I want a MOA adjustments.
In hunting I like a MIL/MOA scope. I know the animal size in inches so I want to be able to adjust in MOA, but I like the MIL for ranging or, for use of my Point Blank Zero. Meaning, I know the size of the animal in inches, and the vital area in inches. So I figure how many Mils the animal will fill to keep me in range of my PBZ, to keep my shots in the vital are without hold over/under.
For example, an antelope is about 15 inches from the top of its back to the bottom of its stomach. So if I sight my rifle in for 275 yards, I can stay in the vital area from the muzzle to 325 yards. Using the mil dot, if its 1.25 mils, I don't have to adjust, or hold over. If its more, then I can adjust in MOA because I know the size of the animal.
If its out of range, I like the mil dot for ranging, laser range finders suck on the prairie.
As I said, depends on how you shoot. I don't want to be limited.