midrange rifle scope

I

idigg

New member
Thinking about putting a vortex crossfire II 4-12 50mm on my 700 30-06 hunting rifle. a good choice? id like to reach out to 400 yards one day, but for now, 200 yards is all i really shoot. im not trying to break the bank. ive traditionally put about 100 into my scopes and theyve always worked fine for me... although ive never really worried about going beyond 100-150 yards... im splurging a bit on this gun and but id still like to keep my spending to around $200.. any advice would be great. i was also looking at the Primary Arms 4-14X Tactical Scope, but i dont like the 30mm tube, or exposed turrets.


there is also the Crossfire II 4 - 12x 44mm... im not really sure if the 50mm is going to make a large difference. and if that difference is going to be worth the $55 price difference.

its really hard to judge information on the web about optics. one spot you can find phenomenal reviews for an $80 simmons scope, and on another youll find terrible reviews on a $300 leuopold.. tough to tell what is actually going to work for me.
 
I don't own anything but "middle of the road" scopes.

They are Minox (2 of them 3-9x40), Nikon 3-9x40, and a Vortex on one of my .22's. All of them work well for me and none cost more than $200.

Personally, I think the 55mm will have to have high scope mounts which can make getting a good cheek weld, difficult.

As far as places to buy a scope on the internet, IMHO you can't beat Camerland of NY. They are a sponsor here and on some other shooting forums and provide great deals.
 
Working with what you have told me:

30-06 HUNTING RIFLE,most shots less than 200 yds,but a capability of 400 yds desired. Correct?

That CAN be done with a fixed 4X. I know my fixed 6X Leupold is pleny of power to place a 400 plus yd shot on a Pronghorn,smaller than a deer.It works on 250 yd prairie dogs.
The typical US Military Sniper Scope for a 7.62 Nato has been a fixed 10 X or 3.5 to 10X.
Enjoy what you like,but I find a hunting rifle much easier to handle and carry with scopes smaller than you are looking at.
IMO,for a 30-06 Hunting rifle? Probably 40 to 42 mm objective.Max,for low mounting,and fewer OOOPS dings and bumps.

Just my opinion? You can place a deer shot at 400 with a 4x. A 6x makes it a little easier.So,from the fixed scopes to a 1,5 to 6x,or a 2 to 7,or a 2.5 to 8,or a 3 to 9. Biggest thing I'd consider is a 3.5 to 10x with 40mm lense.

I have a 30-06 hunting rifle in progress. 1909 Argentine action.Garrett accra lite stock,M-70 FWT pattern.Lothar Walther #3 bbl.
It will wear a 6x by 42 mm Leupold. And 400 yds ? Plenty of scope.
400 yds is not always a good idea,but the 6x scope is plenty.
For me,anyway.
 
Stay away from front objectives greater than 40mm. They are not worth the extra cost. The other negatives far outweigh any perceived positives. A 4-12x scope of will cost about $100 more than a 3-9X scope of the same quality. If I'm spending an extra $100 I'd buy a better 3-9X scope. As said a fixed 4X scope is adequate for 400 yards, any more magnification is just gravy.

I'd avoid anything with a MSRP much below $200. That doesn't mean you can't find a deal on a $200+ scope on sale for under $200.

I've used a lot of them, the best value in the $200 range is the 3-9X40 Burris FF-II. The Redfield Revolution is a close 2nd. Moving up a Leupold VX-1 is around $225. It offers some slight advantages over the other 2. I own some much more expensive scopes, but I'd not feel disadvantaged using any of those 3. I've had cheaper stuff fail and have other issues with quality.

Once you get to a $300-$350 VX-2 you have about as much scope as any hunter really needs. There are some $400 options that are very good scopes too, but once you get into the $500+ scopes you see very large increases in price for very small increases in usable quality.
 
Although I completely agree with jmr40 and others, I think it's high time that us old-schoolers self-educate, and find out how the various Vortexes fit into the mix of things, since the brand is generally so good and popular, with the bulletproof warranty and all.

What I mean is, take for example, Bushnell vs. Nikon. There are *definitely* several Bushnell lines on the lower end I'd never buy nor recommend. Ditto Weaver. But Nikon is different - even the lowest line - the Prostaff basic - is a recommendable scope, in my opinion, for a hunting rifle where you've invested time and money in tags and the hunt. So is the Crossfire analogous to a Nikon Prostaff (bare minimum acceptable quality) or a Bushnell "Sportsman" (below acceptable minimum for most people)? - I don't know but need to learn.

On big objectives, I tend to agree, although they say that it helps with low light (a 50mm or larger), but light transmission can also be gained with higher quality glass grind (better brand/line & higher cost) with the same objective size (therefore the "just spend the extra $100 on a better quality 3-9x40, instead of higher magnifs and doodads" is very good advice, I believe).

But I do have ONE scope on a hunting rifle with an objective larger than 40/42, and it's a scope I got in trade - a Nikon "Prostaff-5, 3-10x50" - it sits on my longest-range-capable hunter, a rifle in 6.5mm-'06. I figured "low light 400 yard pronghorn" is its bailiwick. But it IS goofily-large looking, and somewhat heavy (likely unnecessarily).

I also have a large scope on a long-range varminter in .243 win (Elite 6500 2.5-16x50mm), but I'll set that aside from this "hunting rifles" rifles (more or less, is the discussion).

If this helps, here are the various optics configs (magnifs & objectives) I have on "large game hunting rifles & precision handguns", including muzzleloader:
-1x iron sights (1)
-3-9x40 (2)
-2.5-10x40 (2)
-3.5-10x50 (1)
-1.65-5x36 (2)

I may be forgetting some but you get the gist.

So yeah, I'd tend to agree that a 4-12x40 is a bit "too much" for a large game hunter - not a terrible choice, mind you but not the ideal. It will certainly work.

HOWEVER, do NOT put a scope with an adjustable objective or side focus on a hunting rifle, in my opinion - you definitely want to follow the KISS principle on a hunter. Now, for a varminter or range target-puncher or steel-banger, sure - why not.
 
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I've been pretty constant with Leupold products over the years.

My main game rifle is a "custom" 7x57 [Springfield action.Douglas Bbl.].

I limit my self to 300 to 350 yards as MY comfortable/ethical maximum on game. The rifle wears a Leupold VxIII 1.5x5 by 20mm. Very useful when the shots are fairly close and more than adequate for deer size and above out to my maximum.

Guns that I use more for paper at longer ranges have 3x9 and 4x12 both still great for hunting but the small 1.5x5 is my favorite in the field.
 
Agreed lense coatings play a big part in light transmission.
Better coatings add cost to the scope.

Another factor with light transmission is exit pupil.

Also in the loop is the human eye pupil.

In the Dark,the human eye can open to 7 mm

In hunting/shooting light it will be 5mm.

Objectine lense (mm) divided by Magnification equals exit pupil in mm.

A 6x with a 42 mm lense will have a 7 mm exit pupil.
A 10X by 50 mm will have a 5mm exit pupil.
As will an 8x with a 40 mm lense.
Look to a 7mm EP for max low light capability.A 5mm EP is very good,and adequate for "Legal Shooting Time" light,ordinarily.

A common 3 to 9 x with a 36 mm objective will have a 4 mm exit pupil.Thats still good,but it begins to cost some useful light at full power.That means you might SEE better at 6 X with lower light.than you will at 9X
 
Stay away from front objectives greater than 40mm. They are not worth the extra cost. The other negatives far outweigh any perceived positives. A 4-12x scope of will cost about $100 more than a 3-9X scope of the same quality. If I'm spending an extra $100 I'd buy a better 3-9X scope. As said a fixed 4X scope is adequate for 400 yards, any more magnification is just gravy.
Click to expand...

Another factor with light transmission is exit pupil.

Also in the loop is the human eye pupil.

In the Dark,the human eye can open to 7 mm

In hunting/shooting light it will be 5mm.

Objectine lense (mm) divided by Magnification equals exit pupil in mm.

A 6x with a 42 mm lense will have a 7 mm exit pupil.
A 10X by 50 mm will have a 5mm exit pupil.
As will an 8x with a 40 mm lense.
Look to a 7mm EP for max low light capability.A 5mm EP is very good,and adequate for "Legal Shooting Time" light,ordinarily.

A common 3 to 9 x with a 36 mm objective will have a 4 mm exit pupil.Thats still good,but it begins to cost some useful light at full power.That means you might SEE better at 6 X with lower light.than you will at 9X
Click to expand...

+1 to both ..... and I'll add a couple of points.

When you go to very large objectives lenses, these require higher mounts, raising the sighting plane ..... and jacking with your cheek weld if the gun is not set up for it. Being able to quickly shoulder the gun and having the crosshairs being on the target you were looking at is far more important on a hunting rifle than a little bit of extra, and quite unnecessary, magnification..... as jmr40 noted, 4X is plenty to put the bullet where it needs to go at 400 yards ....

...as for the exit pupil in low light, this is the only reason I've been shown for a large Objective on a (very specialized)hunting rifle that made any sense to me: A riflescope with a large objective, and set on low power will be brighter in low light than a scope of similar cost (coatings, glass quality, construction. etc.) with a smaller objective ...... so if you are going to purchase your equipment based on the small advantage in the 15 or so minutes at the beginning and end of the day ..... or intend to do a lot of "moonlighting" ..... put a "moonscope" on there...... me, I'd spend more on the best glass I could get with a 3x9x40, or similar .....

HiBC seems to like fixed scopes ..... having started out with a fixed 6x .... I am not a fan- at close range, 6x gives a very small field of view ..... problematic if Bambi's Dad shows up @15 FEET ... if it's fixed, 4x would be max for me. we have a couple of fixed scopes here in the house, but they are low power IER "scout" type scopes mounted on short range guns.... If you want to go 400 yards, 2.5X is maybe not what you want......
 
Hit some gun show and you should have no trouble finding a good used Leupold 3 x 9 scope for $200, sometimes less. The Vari X 11`s in 3 x 9 are what I have more of than any other scope. Even if you buy an old one and it don`t work 5 yrs. down the road, Leuopld will fix it free.
 
:) At 15 ft,a 4x Leupold fixed power scope has a 1.2 ft field of view.
The 6x x 42 mm has a 0.9 ft field of view,or 14.4 in for a 4x vs 10.8 in.for a 6x

Leupold has just reworked their website,and some pages were unavailable.

I could not spec a 2.5x scout scope.I'll get a Burris number.

I understand there are all sorts of different hunting circumstances.

I live in Northern Colorado.That scope has been on my .257 AI for over 20 yrs.

That rifle has been used on coyotes,prairie dogs,mule deer and MOSTLY pronghorn.

I can't say I've run into any 15 ft shots.

Update:I have used both the Leupold and Burris scout scopes.I like how the scout scope idea works.Its both eyes open,and very fast.

That said,in the "field of view" question,the Burris 2.75 Scout scope has a FOV of 15 ft at 100 yds.Thats less than a 6x by 42 mm Leupold.

.To each his own!! Whatever works for you is good by me.
 
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wow guys. so much info. thanks a whole lot. definitely saving me some money if i should particularly stay away from 50mm...

i dont really want to go with higher mounts, that's for sure.

i guess i should have made it more clear that $200 was basically my upper limit.

i really do prefer a x-12 scope over the x-9. for paper, and for hunting. maybe that isnt right, but i do like to zoom in real close, even when only at 150 yards.
 
High magnification scopes are certainly useful, especially for punching paper. I have a 36X (specialized target scope) on my target rifle, for example. But, that rifle is NEVER shot off anything but a proper rifle rest, with a proper rear bag. It would be impossible to shoot it accurately, any other way. There is no "free lunch". You have to balance magnification with all of the other practical requirements. The higher the magnification, the steadier the rest needs to be. The higher the magnification, the narrower the field of view....and the smaller the exit pupil will be, etc. etc. etc.

For a hunting rifle, given that a really steady rest is not always possible, I tend to gravitate toward the lowest magnification that will work for the given situation. For me, 4X will do, out to at least 150 yards. Beyond that, I will use a bit more. For 400 yards, as the OP mentioned, I would probably use about 8X myself. But, that is ME. Everyone is different. So, you have to find what works for YOU. There is NO perfect solution - that is, there will ALWAYS be trade-offs.

Having said all of that, I use a 4 - 12 X 40 on my "hunting" rifle. (Actually, I don't hunt anymore, but the rifle is sort of a hunting/ tactical style rifle.) For shorter distances, I use the lower half of the magnification range, for general shooting. For strictly bench rest-style target shooting, I use 12X almost exclusively.....but that is because I use 3" diameter targets at 200 yards with this particular rifle.

As I said, you have to find what works for YOU. That is the only thing that should govern here.
 
yep... im now looking at the nikon prostaff 4-12 40, and the vortex Diamondback 4-12x40... same price range as the original scope in question...
 
Short answer to your question: Vortex Crossfire II scopes are great bang-for-your-buck scopes.

Slightly longer answer: I've owned several 'budget' scopes from several manufacturers over the last 20 odd years and IMO Vortex outshines all of those others with whom I've had personal experiences. I picked up a Crossfire II about 4 years ago on the advice of a much more experienced friend for my varmint gun, and since then have replaced all my scopes with Vortex products. The combination of price point, optical clarity, user-friendliness, customer service, and their no-questioned -asked warranty just put them at the top of the list for me.

If $200 is your upper limit, I just saw a Vortex Diamondback (next step up) 4 4x 12 40mm scope BDC recticle on Midwayusa.com for $199.99. I bought one about 2 years ago for my deer rifle and it flat makes the Bushnell I used tto have on it seem like the old Tasco I had on my pellet rifle thirty years ago.

Note: I'm not saying there aren't other makes that produce quality optics, this is just my opinion based on my limited experiences with the product in the original OP.
 
I guess the most important thing, by a long shot.. is that it holds zero. if i loose some clarity at max zoom, or in low light, i can deal with it. but it needs to hold zero above all else.

im thinking a 4-12 40mm is my ideal setup. or a 44mm, but 44 isnt necesarily desirable over a 40mm.

im heavily looking at nikon prostaff right now. i still keep coming back to the 4-12 44 vortex though.
 
My Nikon Prostaff 3-9 x 40 has been absolutely flawless on my .270 win. I have used other scopes in the same price range and the Nikon seems the clearest.
 
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