Mid-match mag-drop melodrama

P

Pond James Pond

New member
I mostly shoot my SP-01 in IPSC matches. For tactical reasons (ie staying within "production" category rules and trying to make the least time) it is sometimes necessary to drop a mag before it is empty.

I have 4 mags right now. Two are standard 18rders that came with the SP-01. They are the ones I use most as they are easiest to grip and they are the ones I have been having problems with. It may simply be that using them most means the problem occurs with them most, rather than their being the source of the problem. The others are flush-fitting CZ75B 16rd mags.

So what is the problem?

When I try to drop one of these mags they sometimes catch and stick in the mag-well, just poking out by a centimeter or so, but not falling away as they should.

I have to pull them out with my free hand (which by now already has the fresh mag in it!! :rolleyes:). This adds precious seconds to my time and goodness knows my shooting does enough of that as it is.

When I collect my mags after the stage I often see the top two cartridges protruding from the mag lip. Is this from falling to ground or is it from feeding the preceding rounds in the gun thus preventing the mg from just falling down? This I don't know.

When I practice with empty mags at home, I never have the problem, but then I am not under the pressure of the timer running over my shoulder!!

The mag release is a little stiff, but I swapped it over to my trigger finger side and I lightened it by filing a small amount of the material off the spring inside.

Do you have this problem?
Is it a design issue?
Is it just that I am not pressing the mag-release firmly enough and the catch inside is trapping the mag?
 
You will be surprised how much junk builds up in the magwell and around the release button latch inside. Also check to be sure the mag brake is completely flat (the piece of metal between the mag and hammer spring). Start with that, then try wiping the mags with something slick, like Teflon or silicone spray.

I also notice the top round can be pulled out a bit in my matches, but I haven't really noticed an issue with it in my P01.
 
I'll check those things, but I know the mag release to be pretty clean as I recently de-gunked the lot before re-spraying the whole assembly (inc magwell walls) with dri-lube.

It's not the sort of thing you can easily/safely re-create at home due to the need to have live rounds chambered etc. Next time I am at the range I will need to do some mag-drop trials...
 
Next time I am at the range I will need to do some mag-drop trials...
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Try to pay attention to the angle at which you hold the gun when dropping the mag, since anything with the mag less than perpendicular to the ground will create more drag.

You might also be able to use a little "chopping' motion to give it some added momentum when you hit the release, as if you are "throwing" the mag out
 
I have seen Sig Sauers drag the next round out of the magazine far enough to prevent a drop-free reload, you may have the same thing. I don't know how to fix it, but fresh magazine springs MIGHT help.

The other thing to look for is distortion of the magazine.
Set your calipers across the magazine near the bottom and slide the jaws up the tube. Do they bind against a wide area where the tube is bent or bulged?
 
One possible fix is stronger mag springs, which will resist the top rounds being pushed out. (Don't know where you get extra-strength springs on your side of the world.)
 
The other possibility is less likely, but...

Removing the grips and trying to work things with them off may show WHERE the mag is being help up... Are there any marks on the mag bodies to show WHERE they might be catching inside the mag well? You could use very fine sandpaper to smooth those areas, if any show...

Pay attention to rear of the mag, where it rests against the mag brake -- which may be pushing on the mag a bit more than it should.

Note: the top of the mag brake is held in place by a roll pin, which can go "walkabout" if you're not careful, so watch that.

Older-style Czs would let the mag drop about 1/3 of the way and then stop it -- it was apparently an Eastern European military practice to do that (so that the mags could be retained.) That doesn't sound like the same problem you are describing, but the mag brake may be what is causing the "snag."

Removing the mag brake (to modify it) is easy, and so is bending it (if you don't bend it too far -- it is relatively brittle metal. Reinstalling it after bending it -- which is what we used to do before "drop-free" mags (i.e., a straight mag brake) were commonly used in CZs -- is a pain, as the little metal tab on the bottom must be aligned with a pin in the grip. It's harder than it ought to be..

I got to the point where I just broke off that little metal tab; doing that doesn't change the mag brake function or cause problems, and makes later disassembly (like when changing hammer springs) easier and quicker.
 
Well, the only answer to the mag-brake suggestion is that the mags fall away without any problem when practising mag changes at home with empty mags. These are much lighter than partially loaded mags dropped in competition and you'd think that those lighter mags would drag more easily.

As I should have explained in the OP, I have noticed that if I don't depress the mag-release fully the mag drops away a bit but the catch inside then re-pinches the side of the mag, but I've only done this intentionally to see how far I'd need to press the mag release to get a reliable drop... However, in a match I am not feathering the mag-release, and it doesn't seem to happen to the standard 75 mags.
 
Sherlock would call that a clue.
Can you get more of these mags that work?
That extra two rounds only matters if you miss a lot.
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Well, it may also be that I use the bigger mags more often in competition and so I see it happen more with them.
I opt for those because of the bigger base giving me a better purchase on them when I grab one from the holder.

Also, despite the fact I do miss a lot, all mags only have 15rds in them to stay within "production" division requirements.
 
Sounds like a possible mag spring issue. Maybe.

If you've never kept those higher-cap mags loaded with more than 15 rounds, the following isn't likely to help. But, if you do load them up with more than 15 rounds, and keep that way, then the following might point to a possible problem. Otherwise, the springs are the same, as is the work they're doing.

In the past -- this may have changed -- CZ used the same springs in all of their full-sized mags. In a few cases they used different followers, and they may have had different mag bases. If that's still the case, and if you have kept your mags loaded for long periods (as when stored) with more than 15 rounds, the 18-round loaded mags springs may have been pushed to or past their elastic limits. When that happens the springs (and nearly all materials) start to lose some strength due to internal structural degradation. It's NOT LIKELY, this soon after purchase, but it's a possibility.

If you've never kept those higher capacity mags loaded with more than 15-16 rounds, skip over the next three (indented) paragraphs.

If those springs are losing some strength, then they're not pushing the top-most round up against the mag lips with full force. If that happens, inertia (caused by the slide slamming forward) may be inertially pushing/dragging the top round forward just enough to catch on the front of the mag well...

Download the mag 1-2 rounds and let the slide slam forward to load a round), and see if you still have the problem when you press the mag release. If you don't have a problem after downloading, it may be that taking the extra weight of 1 or 2 rounds off the ammo column allows the "weakened" springs to exert enough force to prevent the top-most round from moving.

If so, order some new mag springs, and try not to leave the mags FULLY loaded any longer than necessary and download them a round or two at other times if you keep them mostly loaded. You said you're limited to 15 rounds during competition, so leaving them loaded to THAT limit shouldn't be causing problems. (Wolff Springs recommends this on their website for hi-cap and compact mags left fully loaded if the mag spring are nearly fully compressed when fully loaded: download a round or two.)​

If none of this works, you can try swapping the springs and followers from the "good" mags and put them in the "bad" mags and see if THAT helps.

If it doesn't, I give up.
 
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I opt for those because of the bigger base giving me a better purchase on them when I grab one from the holder.
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How about getting shorter holders and using the mags that you know work?
And practice your reloads more. :)
It could be worse.
Our USPSA production division is limited to ten rounds, as is Limited 10 and IDPA.

By the way, lubing the outside of the mags to help them eject can backfire.
Slickery mags are hard to hang on to, sometimes.
I once needed an extra mag for a long stage, and one of the other squad members generously loaded me one.
It was also generously lubed and went flying the first time I used it.
And bounced a couple of times off the cement floor.
He didn't loan me any more.
 
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As an interim solution....

Back when I had an original Glock 17 with the original non-drop free magazines, I developed the habit of using my weak hand to extract the magazine on the way to grabbing a new reload. It wasn't something always needed (as the mags dropped free when 75% empty or so) but it did ensure 100% magazine extraction regardless of loaded capacity. Reloading times didn't seem to be severely affected, but I was never at any sort of 'professional' speed levels anyway.

I still use the same method today, even though I'm carrying an M&P and all my Glock mags are now metal lined.
 
A good trick for if the magazine is already in your support hand: Use the back of the magazine in your hand to strip the other one out of the grip, you should be able to hook it on the front lip of the stuck magazine.
 
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