http://www.mcrgo.org/
Under the same heading at Michigan Coalition for responsible Gun Owners website.
Taking their guns. Prosecutor aims to end seizures if no crime
Sunday, June 4, 2000
By Steven Hepker
Staff Writer
Alexander Nagy was speeding on his way to a pistol shoot in Jackson one day last year when a state trooper stopped him on I-94 and seized his registered guns.
Although never charged with a crime, Nagy lost his $2,500 pair of matched Smith & Wesson Model 41 semiautomatic pistols.
"It was no different than if they walked into my house and confiscated my guns," said Nagy, of Trenton.
Jackson County Prosecutor John McBain, who declined to issue a criminal charge against Nagy, agrees. He is pushing legislation to change state law.
"I can't believe it was the Legislature's intent to seize guns of people who are not convicted of a crime," McBain said. "I am tired of dealing in cases where there was no crime, and yet the people lose their guns."
He cited a more recent case in which Cindy Williams of Parma Township lost her 20-gauge shotgun to state police after she shot in the air to get the attention of a crew of state prisoners cutting trees along a county drain on her land.
Again, Williams was not found guilty of a crime, but police kept her gun, a sentimental gift from an old friend.
"They stole my gun, and I don't believe for one minute that it was destroyed and melted down," she said.
The move outraged citizens and several area politicians, McBain said.
Proposed legislation
McBain has submitted proposed legislation to state Rep. Mickey Mortimer that would allow gun confiscation only when a crime is proven. He also sought support from Ted Nugent and the National Rifle Association.
Williams said she was protecting her property from trespassers and she never intended to shoot anyone. Nagy was anticipating an enjoyable day at the gun range, a few miles from where he was stopped by a state trooper.
Nagy, whose competition pistols featured custom grips, Tasco Red Dot scopes and expensive gunsmithing, also doubts his guns were destroyed. But records of the state police Firearms Records Unit indicate they were melted on May 6, 1999.
The state melted 7,314 handguns, 4,063 rifles and shotguns, and 7,448 knives, BB guns and other weapons last year at an undisclosed blast furnace.
No one has a record of how many were actually linked to crimes. That guns can be seized permanently without a conviction is what bothers McBain and others.
McBain said cops should seize guns involved in criminal activity, and not as a matter of course. He said the key to fighting gun crime is to push felony firearms - a mandatory two-year sentence - in all cases in which guns are used in crimes.
"Taking a man's target pistols has nothing to do with cutting crime," he said.
Gun taken during traffic stop
Nagy points out that his traffic citation didn't even add points to his driving record.
His mistake, besides speeding, was carrying his gun case in the back seat, instead of in the trunk, and then telling the police officer. Although he registered the guns, he did not have a permit to carry them - either a CCW or what is called a "hunting and target" permit.
Police said his guns were "readily accessible," which both McBain and Nagy said is a stretch of the concealed weapons law. The guns were not loaded.
Nagy said Wayne County's gun board, like Jackson's, restricts concealed weapons permits mostly to police and retired police. Most competition shooters, he said, do not have CCW or range permits, although he has since applied for one.
Law enforcement has interpreted the gun confiscation aspect of state law as absolute. "Not even a judge has the authority to return a confiscated gun," McBain said.
If anyone could have gotten his guns back, McBain said it was Nagy, whom he called a "pillar" of his community.
On the day he was stopped by Trooper Daniel Palmer, Nagy was wearing a hat and jacket emblazoned with the Taylor Pistol Club logo. He volunteered that the guns were in the car.
"I was taught to tell the truth in all cases," Nagy said. "I had nothing to hide."
"I don't believe his intent was anything but to go to Jackson to shoot in a pistol contest," Palmer wrote in his report.
Nagy also is friends with many state police officers who shoot competitively, and they apparently placed calls to Lt. Tom Finco, who was commander of the Jackson post and is now Blackman Public Safety chief.
Finco, however, pushed for the gun seizure in court, citing Michigan's concealed weapons statute.
"I went to Judge (James) Justin and said that the gun belongs to the state for destruction," Finco said. "The law is clear."
Finco said he would oppose a change that would require a conviction for gun seizures.
"Suppose a husband points a gun at his wife and she does not want to testify. By law, we can keep the gun now and he can't use it next time," Finco said.
McBain, Mortimer and musician Ted Nugent have joined forces to say that seizing guns without criminal convictions is wrong and downright un-American.
Legislator favors change
"It is government far overreaching, and I don't think we would allow anything else to be confiscated without judication," said Mortimer, R-Horton. "It's like being stopped for driving a motorcycle without a helmet, and they take your motorcycle."
Mortimer said he has submitted the proposed legislation for drafting, and hopes to bring it to committee this fall. Despite growing calls for more gun control, Mortimer said he expects plenty of support. "This is a property-rights issue, not a gun-control issue."
Nugent, who is a board member of the National Rifle Association, is a friend of police agencies across the nation, but not on this matter.
"We need to pounce on this issue and join forces with the prosecuting attorney to get decency and common sense back in the language of this concealed weapons quagmire," he said.
Nugent, who has a CCW permit and carries handguns, said he has talked with hundreds of police across America, and they are appalled at the excesses within their ranks.
"They know of the discretionary powers and the abuses thereof," Nugent said. "Most of them identify themselves as peace officers, here to serve and protect. We have to expose the abusers who are serving and protecting the criminal element."
- Reach reporter Steven Hepker at jcpnews@citpat.com or 768-4923.
Under the same heading at Michigan Coalition for responsible Gun Owners website.
Taking their guns. Prosecutor aims to end seizures if no crime
Sunday, June 4, 2000
By Steven Hepker
Staff Writer
Alexander Nagy was speeding on his way to a pistol shoot in Jackson one day last year when a state trooper stopped him on I-94 and seized his registered guns.
Although never charged with a crime, Nagy lost his $2,500 pair of matched Smith & Wesson Model 41 semiautomatic pistols.
"It was no different than if they walked into my house and confiscated my guns," said Nagy, of Trenton.
Jackson County Prosecutor John McBain, who declined to issue a criminal charge against Nagy, agrees. He is pushing legislation to change state law.
"I can't believe it was the Legislature's intent to seize guns of people who are not convicted of a crime," McBain said. "I am tired of dealing in cases where there was no crime, and yet the people lose their guns."
He cited a more recent case in which Cindy Williams of Parma Township lost her 20-gauge shotgun to state police after she shot in the air to get the attention of a crew of state prisoners cutting trees along a county drain on her land.
Again, Williams was not found guilty of a crime, but police kept her gun, a sentimental gift from an old friend.
"They stole my gun, and I don't believe for one minute that it was destroyed and melted down," she said.
The move outraged citizens and several area politicians, McBain said.
Proposed legislation
McBain has submitted proposed legislation to state Rep. Mickey Mortimer that would allow gun confiscation only when a crime is proven. He also sought support from Ted Nugent and the National Rifle Association.
Williams said she was protecting her property from trespassers and she never intended to shoot anyone. Nagy was anticipating an enjoyable day at the gun range, a few miles from where he was stopped by a state trooper.
Nagy, whose competition pistols featured custom grips, Tasco Red Dot scopes and expensive gunsmithing, also doubts his guns were destroyed. But records of the state police Firearms Records Unit indicate they were melted on May 6, 1999.
The state melted 7,314 handguns, 4,063 rifles and shotguns, and 7,448 knives, BB guns and other weapons last year at an undisclosed blast furnace.
No one has a record of how many were actually linked to crimes. That guns can be seized permanently without a conviction is what bothers McBain and others.
McBain said cops should seize guns involved in criminal activity, and not as a matter of course. He said the key to fighting gun crime is to push felony firearms - a mandatory two-year sentence - in all cases in which guns are used in crimes.
"Taking a man's target pistols has nothing to do with cutting crime," he said.
Gun taken during traffic stop
Nagy points out that his traffic citation didn't even add points to his driving record.
His mistake, besides speeding, was carrying his gun case in the back seat, instead of in the trunk, and then telling the police officer. Although he registered the guns, he did not have a permit to carry them - either a CCW or what is called a "hunting and target" permit.
Police said his guns were "readily accessible," which both McBain and Nagy said is a stretch of the concealed weapons law. The guns were not loaded.
Nagy said Wayne County's gun board, like Jackson's, restricts concealed weapons permits mostly to police and retired police. Most competition shooters, he said, do not have CCW or range permits, although he has since applied for one.
Law enforcement has interpreted the gun confiscation aspect of state law as absolute. "Not even a judge has the authority to return a confiscated gun," McBain said.
If anyone could have gotten his guns back, McBain said it was Nagy, whom he called a "pillar" of his community.
On the day he was stopped by Trooper Daniel Palmer, Nagy was wearing a hat and jacket emblazoned with the Taylor Pistol Club logo. He volunteered that the guns were in the car.
"I was taught to tell the truth in all cases," Nagy said. "I had nothing to hide."
"I don't believe his intent was anything but to go to Jackson to shoot in a pistol contest," Palmer wrote in his report.
Nagy also is friends with many state police officers who shoot competitively, and they apparently placed calls to Lt. Tom Finco, who was commander of the Jackson post and is now Blackman Public Safety chief.
Finco, however, pushed for the gun seizure in court, citing Michigan's concealed weapons statute.
"I went to Judge (James) Justin and said that the gun belongs to the state for destruction," Finco said. "The law is clear."
Finco said he would oppose a change that would require a conviction for gun seizures.
"Suppose a husband points a gun at his wife and she does not want to testify. By law, we can keep the gun now and he can't use it next time," Finco said.
McBain, Mortimer and musician Ted Nugent have joined forces to say that seizing guns without criminal convictions is wrong and downright un-American.
Legislator favors change
"It is government far overreaching, and I don't think we would allow anything else to be confiscated without judication," said Mortimer, R-Horton. "It's like being stopped for driving a motorcycle without a helmet, and they take your motorcycle."
Mortimer said he has submitted the proposed legislation for drafting, and hopes to bring it to committee this fall. Despite growing calls for more gun control, Mortimer said he expects plenty of support. "This is a property-rights issue, not a gun-control issue."
Nugent, who is a board member of the National Rifle Association, is a friend of police agencies across the nation, but not on this matter.
"We need to pounce on this issue and join forces with the prosecuting attorney to get decency and common sense back in the language of this concealed weapons quagmire," he said.
Nugent, who has a CCW permit and carries handguns, said he has talked with hundreds of police across America, and they are appalled at the excesses within their ranks.
"They know of the discretionary powers and the abuses thereof," Nugent said. "Most of them identify themselves as peace officers, here to serve and protect. We have to expose the abusers who are serving and protecting the criminal element."
- Reach reporter Steven Hepker at jcpnews@citpat.com or 768-4923.
