Mexico threatens MinuteMan Project....

J

JimDiver

New member
http://www.washtimes.com/upi-breaking/20050301-065034-3887r.htm

Mexico City, Mexico, Mar. 1 (UPI) -- With the peak season for illegal border crossings looming in the next few months, both Mexico and the United States are gearing up for thousands of inevitable confrontations between Mexicans who will attempt the treacherous journey through the Arizona desert and the American border patrol and immigration authorities on the other side.

While U.S. border states have a long history of local citizen groups engaging in "law enforcement" in the form of scouting for and reporting surreptitious border crossers, this year a large and highly organized effort has appeared called the Minuteman Project, fueling new concerns from the Mexican government for the human rights of its citizens.

Mexican Foreign Secretary Luis Ernesto Derbez said Monday that the Mexican government will take legal action against any vigilante militia groups at the U.S.-Mexico border who harm or violate the rights of undocumented migrants crossing into the United States.

"We are going to attack by all legal means," Derbez told reporters at a news conference. "We are presenting the reasons why we consider this action to be incorrect and illegal from the point of view not only of our government but also under U.S. law."

Derbez added that he had asked a group of U.S. lawyers in Los Angeles to put together a legal strategy to confront the actions of Minuteman Project volunteers.

The Minuteman Project is composed of volunteers who say they will be gathering on April 1 in Tombstone, Ariz., near the border, to assemble and speak against the "illegal alien invasion crisis." Afterwards, the volunteers will camp out along the border and assist border law enforcement officials for the entire month of April in catching illegal border crossers, according to Minuteman Project founder Jim Gilchrist.

"The men and women volunteering for this mission are those who are willing to sacrifice their time ... while their nation is devoured and plundered by the menace of tens of millions of invading illegal aliens," the Minuteman Project Web site reads.

So far, Gilchrist said he had received more than 800 applications from U.S. citizens who wanted to volunteer with the project.

"People have portrayed us as being violent and wanting to shoot and kill illegal aliens, but that's just not true," Gilchrist told United Press International in a telephone interview from Aliso Viejo, Calif. "We will not be carrying rifles, although Arizona law allows people to carry arms if they want to -- so some people who join us may choose to carry them."

Gilchrist said that most importantly, the volunteers will be exercising their right to speak freely under the First Amendment about the crisis at the border and supporting local law enforcement officials with observing and reporting illegal activity.

"It's no different from seeing a burglar in your neighbor's house and calling the sheriff," Gilchrist said.

Despite Gilchrist's insistence that the Minuteman Project is not a violent operation, Derbez in his Monday statement characterized the group as "hunters" of Mexican citizens. And Derbez told reporters the issue of the militia groups will be handled directly with U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice when she meets March 10 with Derbez in Mexico City.

In response to the prospect of legal action taken against the Minuteman Project, Gilchrist said, "Mexico should mind its own business, but instead it's trying to encourage violence."

Since border policies were implemented in the 1990s, it is estimated that more than 3,000 migrants have lost their lives on the U.S.-Mexico border, according to the Tucson-based Human Rights Coalition.

April is typically the month when migrants begin to cross the Arizona desert in large numbers, a migration pattern that tends to run through September even as temperatures in the desert become scorching.
 
I have officially seen it all!

I can not even fathom the idea of sueing someone for not letting people ILLEGALY come into MY HOME and TAKE what they want :eek: :mad: ! The Mexican Gov. does not have a legal leg to stand on IMHO.....If we stopped their LEGAL immigration then I can maybe see a suit... because we will not TAKE YOUR UNWANTED ILLEGAL CITIZENS Mexico should get a life and a clue......What if our citizens were illegally crossing into Mexico(why I don't know.... maybe to escape criminal prosecution like I am sure alot of illegals do) would Mexico accept them? Doubt it.....
 
The mexican government doesn't have a case. On the other hand, if the Mexi Government starts suing people, mabee it will becoms a midterm election issue. Either way, it is unintentionaly spreading the word about the project. If the Beaners get violent against the volenteers it will be PG gold for the Minutemen. I can see the headline

"Volenteers attacked by Mexicans, the US under attack."

\Is it wrong to hope that the volenteers are attacked by the Mexicans so that people will get their heads out of the sand.
 
If Sec. of State Rice is actually gonna meet with this guy AND he brings this up it will be a true newstory if she actually addresses it . I would like to see her tell this bozo that illegal means exactly that . ILLEGAL !!! I see no reason to allow them to contaminate our country just because they are too corrupt to fix theirs . If she tells him like it is I will have untold respect for her .
 
And I quote. . .

"Mexican Foreign Secretary Luis Ernesto Derbez said Monday that the Mexican government will take legal action against any vigilante militia groups at the U.S.-Mexico border who harm or violate the rights of undocumented migrants crossing into the United States."

What rights do undocumented migrants invading my homeland have???

The right to turn around

The right to remain Mexican

The right to a bullet

The right to be arrested and deported.

Maybe we should begin taking legal action against Mexico for violating the rights of U.S. citizens by not controlling their own borders!! :mad:

Derbez can go take a long walk off a short pier! And BUSH had better start addressing this issue if he wants to keep conservative support.

Vanguard.45
 
First off, I don't think Bush is too worried about support. Yes he needs some in Congress, but I think he has his attitude on it and it isn't going to change. Mexico should expect the same policies from us as they have on the Guatamalans or Hondurans crossing their border. Of course, we would never do that and I would never support it. If the Mexicans catch you crossing their southern border, they tend to shoot first. If you're not shot, they bludgeon you and your family. They are quite brutal protecting themselves. There are easy and effective political solutions to this problem, however we don't have the will to effect the most effective non-violent policies, therefore, we will continue to face the possibilities of enacting violent policies to keep illegals out. What a shame.

It seems like the Government always shuns the easy and effective policies and takes the most rediculous policies they can just to get budget increases. If I had my way, there'd be very little in the way of border patrol. We wouldn't need them because Mexico would have their Army on the border keeping their citizens in. It is a Mexican problem that has become our problem. I would like to see us encourage the Mexicans to make it their problem again.
 
Wets

I personally don't want illegal invaders from Mexico shot, I just want them held by whomever for the INS, arrested, taken off and sent back to Mexico.

As for civilians taking this upon themselves, it isn't cool but the US Federal Government doesn't seem interested in protecting our borders as efficiently as it could be done due to lack of manpower.......Its a dirty job but someone had to do it.

If the illegals come packing firearms and ready for battle, kill them all and let God sort them out!
 
Yes- in the case where illegals are found armed, I have no problem shooting them. Also if illegals are breaking into homes, then just like a regular US born home invader, I think society is well served by shooting them (armed or not)- although I would hate to be tried in South Texas for that!
 
Vanguard, do you honestly believe that illegal border crossing is a crime that warrants the death penalty?
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There are many instances of the Mexican army crossing the border illegaly with weapons. They have fired upon BP. Yes. Those who cross the border while armed or smuggling drugs should be shot as invaders.

Over a third of the violent prisoners in the PRK prison system are illegals. All illegal border crossers are criminals. Repeat offenders are felons.
 
It seems like we're all talking about issues of self defense. Sure, you should shoot anyone who is threatening your life. Whether you are a homeowner, border patrol agent, or anyone else.

But the question I'm asking is whether or not it's justifiable to shoot people simply for walking across the border. I would imagine the vast majority of people coming for work cannot afford arms, and that most of the armed are in fact drug runners.
 
Shootinstudent: In addition to protecting life, protecting property is also a justifiable shoot. That said however, a jury is more than likely going to buy off on a life saving shot, but I'd probably need a pretty good lawyer to get out of the shot fired to save a goat or keep my pink flamingoes safe in the yard.
 
kjm: I understand that in some jurisdictions personal property is a good shoot. But I'm not even talking about theft. You can't shoot to protect commonly owned property in any jurisdiction.

Anyway, my question is: What do you support? Not, "what will the law allow right now?". There's absolutely zero question that shooting someone for illegal immigration alone will land you in jail for murder right now. But does anyone seriously think that should be changed?
 
Personally, I think that this attitude displayed by the Mexican government is just plain hypocritical. If they were so concerned with their citizens' welfare and so concerned with their rights, then why are they actively encouraging them to engage in criminal activity -- like illegally crossing the U.S. border? And what gives them any call to criticize anything that goes on in the U.S.? It isn't their country, they should butt out, and take care of their own. They tell us to butt out often enough, ya' know. And as has been pointed out before: What about how they are on their own southern border? Hypocrites!

Why don't they look at just why it is that so many of their own citizens seek to leave their country illegally. Could it be that their own government is corrupt and their own economy is in the tank? If they were to be honest about it, they'd clean up their own back yard and make it so that their own citizens aren't seeking to flee. I mean, you don't hear about this sort of problem on our northern border, and why is that? Could it be that the Canadians have no real reason to violate the border? Could it be that the Canadian government is not so corrupt and the Canadian economy is strong enough to provide for a decent standard of living? And what's to prevent the Mexicans from emulating them?

As for shooting the illegals -- well, I say that the same criteria should be used for them as for any other criminal. Because criminals are what they actually are. And if they are coming across the border illegally en-masse, they are invaders and should be treated as such.
 
Why don't they look at just why it is that so many of their own citizens seek to leave their country illegally. Could it be that their own government is corrupt and their own economy is in the tank?
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That's exactly right, which is why I don't believe the illegal immigration problem will ever be solved until a real development plan takes root in Mexico.

As for stopping people from leaving Mexico, umm, why would Mexico do this? Does the Mexican government have some responsibility to enforce US law against its citizens? I don't see how this would be possible, considering that the US does not enforce Mexican law against its own. Also, the southern border of Mexico is notoriously porous. There are lots of corrupt drug police there, but that's about it. Anyone who thinks Mexico is effectively controlling immigration from its south needs to take a trip out to DC and ask the El Salvadorean immigrants there how tough it is to cross from Guatemala to Mexico.
 
As I live and breath, the government of Mexico intends to or makes noise about "protecting the rights of of undocumented immigrants (illegal immigrants) crossing into the United States".

I wonder as to exactly what those "rights" might possibly be, given that one would think that any soverign nation has "the right" to protect and or to control it's borders, including of course, Mexico.

Perhaps their President Fox could offer some explaination of the "rights" possessed by these "undocumented immigrants", as well as possibly answering questions concerning why it is that conditions in Mexico are such that they drive this illegal immigration that has become such a sore point.
 
As for stopping people from leaving Mexico, umm, why would Mexico do this? Does the Mexican government have some responsibility to enforce US law against its citizens?
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No, the Mexican government does not have a responsibility to inforce US laws. Nor do they have any right what-so-ever to aid their citizens in the blatant disregard of such U.S. laws. Which is what they do.
On previous threads, we have discussed the Mexican Government's publication of a pamplet in which Mexicans are taught how to cross into the US illegally, and are given advice on how best to ellude capture once they are here. We have also discussed the Mexican Government's public denouncement and threats of legal action against Arizona's Proposition 200.
I will not go into the particulars of each of these, since they are discussed on archive threads in detail. However, let me point out that these intrusions and threats against OUR states' and national decisions is not coming from some off-the-wall radical internet-based hate group. Folks, this is coming out the Mexican Foriegn Ministry.
Now it is reported that they are going to take on the MinuteManProject.
The Mexican government does not appreciate that a group of Americans are protesting the "open door policy" of the American government that allows an estimated 4000 illegals to cross into the state of Arizona alone every day. The Mexican government is concerned about the rights of its people to act in an illegal manner.
Have we fallen down the infamous rabbit hole? Where up is down and 2 + 2 equals 5?

But the question I'm asking is whether or not it's justifiable to shoot people simply for walking across the border.
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Shooting, I actually share your sentiments. I do not wish to see people get shot for "simply" crossing a border. That is why they must be convinced not to cross the border. That is why I support the MMP. That is why I am baffled at our government's open-door policy. That is why I urge folks to rise up against this border fiasco. This is not an issue that is going to go away and I fear many innocents, both Americans and non-citizens, may pay the ultimate price in years to come. And for absolutely no other reason than a refusal on the part of the government to do its job and the reluctance of the American people to demand they do so.
No one is under the illusion that spending a month in the desert observing and reporting illegal traffic to the Arizona border control is going to end the wave of illegal traffic permanantly. The purpose is to raise American consciousness of the issue and force our government to acknowledge the problem. It is a civil rights protest in the truest sense of the term. That is what we are suppose to do in this country when we feel our government is not responsive to a real-and-present national crisis. That is what we do when letters to the White House, letters to congress, ect. are ignored. This is what we do instead of shooting; this is what we do to try and prevent a future escalation of events. This is what we do because to do anything less would be to do nothing.
 
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The problem is there is no triple fenced high voltage center fence, then bullets and militia would not be required. Mexico would be forced to deal with it's corrupt social issues. 1/2 the prisoner in California and other border states would not be supported by tax dollars, nor would the crime they committed have occurred. I could go to an emergency room with out waiting behind a line of non English speaking people taxdollards are paying for.
All the mexican govt. has to do is give their people documents without extortion, then an orderly system of guest workers could be established with the business owners employing such guest workers fully responsible for their welfare.
I don't care if lettuce costs a head what a gallon of gas does., the cost and degradation to the United States way of life is not worth unsecured (physically by any and all means) borders! :mad:
 
I wouldn´t take seriously what the Mexican Goverment says.
But saying Mexican come to your home and take what they wants is trying to forget the true story.
Remember the so-called Americans (actually European immigrants) were the ones who came to Mexico and take what they want, I mean Texas, New Mexico, Arizona, California and Colorado.

Anibal.
 
TO EVERYONE:

I ALWAYS use the reverse hypothesis theory.

IF there were MILLIONS of US citizens flooding across Mexican borders, sucking up a portion of their resources, including all sorts of social services, do you think FOR ONE SECOND that Luis Ernesto Derbez would have the same outlook towards illegal immigration?

SECONDLY, NO ONE mentions all the problems created by THOUSANDS of illegals crossing private property, endangering themselves, the land owners, their animals, their water supply, their physical property (homes, cars, etc) and the LAND ITSELF.

Where is the OUTCRY of the Seirra club for all the damage to all those 'delicate dry climate plants' that thousands of feet are trampling into the dirt? I guess it's only a problem if private property owners do the damage, not illegal aliens.
 
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