Merwin-Hulbert gearing up for production!!!

m657

Inactive
I for one am looking forward to getting my hands on one:

http://www.merwinhulbertco.com/

If you haven't been keeping up with the far more frequent updates in www.merwinhulbertco.com's Forum section, here's the facts:

1. The Merwin 2nd Model Open-Top (1876-1880) Pocket Army and Frontier Army are completely designed in SolidWorks CAD (same program S&W and Ruger use for their pistols) by the engineering team, have had plastic prototypes run from the CAD to test their fit with the original revolvers we laser-scanned and hand-measured, and are being checked over by our West Point-educated Weapons System Engineer of 40 years gunmaking/ammunitionmaking experience. The parts can start running from that CAD at the team of shops (mostly in Montana) in our supply chain across March-May with the revolvers assembled, finished and tested at our riflemaking plant in Wyoming this summer.

2. The Third Model top-strap double action Merwin Pocket Army & Frontier Army are mostly designed (we standardized on the best Merwin solutions across the models so there's really not a lot of changes) and CAD will wrap up in March so we expect those to be finished guns in the Fall. Not sure when or if we'll make the 4th Model TopStrap, that'll depend on sales and serious requests.

3. The website is getting a long awaited overhaul including the order form which has driven us nuts even more than it's bothered you. We assumed too much Merwin Hulbert knowledge of customers and gave too many confusing options. It'll be a lot clearer. We're also adding more Merwin history and other useful content as well as making it far easier to update (it was taking 6-12 months for no good reason.)

4. While we'll be adding video down the road, there's a good intro to Merwins already on www.YouTube.com from the NRA Museum's Curators Corner with longtime collector/auctioneer/Museum Director Jim Supica lucidly explaining and demonstrating the Merwins.

5. It's taken way longer than folks that have never manufactured anything seem to think it should take (or assume manufacturers fill up a warehouse or two with finished products before trying to sell any, assuming there's a real and ready demand.) In real terms it's gone pretty fast as we're bringing back a proven design made in the hundreds of thousands for roughly 20 years. Which leaves us puzzled at the demand for working prototypes as though this was a new untried design. We are prototyping for assuring measurement errors didn't creep in from the originals (a few did, 2/1,000ths of an inch for fit of the grip panels) but are going straight to final parts from the CAD. We've made some subtle strengthening choices to a few parts but it's all original Merwin designs...the 9 designers or more who came up with this series of big .44 revolvers were very smart guys we're not going to second-guess. Metallurgy and precision are of course better given this era's choices. We make the
proof ammunition for many of the large gunmakers as well as some of the biggest rounds in the world for rifles (up through .700 Nitro Express which has a 1,000 grain slug) so we're more obsessive than most about strength and reliability.

6. Calibers (this has changed between feedback and engineering): .38 Special, .44 Special, .44-40 Winchester, .45 ACP, and we're still debating how to chamber for .45 Long Colt but not allow the smallest version of the .454 Casull to be used (while the top strap would likely be strong enough, we don't want to stress the open-top design with magnum loads since we assume you'll shoot these a lot.)

7. Barrels have been designed so all of our models can have a set of 3 interchangeable barrels (or just 1 or 2, your choice) at 3.5", 5", and 7" lengths. Those were both historically accurate (well 5.5" is actually more historical for Merwins, but more of you wanted shorter than longer barrels so we went to 5"). You really can change the barrels in a few seconds and without a tool, a feature still basically unknown with only a few semi-automatics like the SIG and Glock offering barrel switches or the long out of production Dan Wesson revolvers. Barrels have been one of the most significant challenges to this since a Merwin barrel isn't just a steel pipe with 5 lands and grooves threaded on one end but part of the whole front of the gun and rifling revolver barrels is a mostly lost art. That's a step we're having revolver barrel rifling experts do (you already probably own some of their pistols) even though we have our own Pratt & Whitney cut rifling and button rifling inhouse
for rifles.

8. When the new order form on the website goes up in the next few weeks, I urge you to place your orders (we'll honor your place for what you sent in already but want to confirm with the new specifications and your own interest.) Like anything ordered over the web (shipped to the FFL dealer you use), you'll pay by credit card for it, satisfaction is guaranteed (as you know Mastercard and Visa help you on that too) and we're offering a 5 year warranty on parts and workmanship. Service and repair will be available at our factory in Wyoming (but Merwin parts vary so much even within the original series of big .44's that new parts fitting your originals will be more varied than any of us expected, even with all of the parts on the new Merwins coming from original parts.

9. We've lined up a few dealers that really focus on the CAS market in the U.S. and Europe but we expect that 98% of the Merwins will be sold directly from the website and then shipped to your favorite FFL dealer for whatever transfer fee he charges for that service and in compliance with local and federal laws since these are fully functional modern guns that happen to be 1876-1886 designs unlike say cap and ball revolvers.

We appreciate your continuing interest and helping us figure out what to make. Let us know if you still want one or two, what you want (from what we're making above, we're past wish lists but those were quite helpful early on.) You'll be seeing these in a lot of magazine and television coverage (far more than we expected early on) but not a lot of ads-this is a small, craftsmanship project of one of our divisions rather than the next major handgun maker in the world roll-out. We expect to sell 1000-2000 of these a year and would rather make them right than often and durable rather than cheap. This confuses a lot of folks but not you. If you're ready for the revolver that most police chose back then as well as the one many of the West's top pistoleers adopted after years of shooting everything else in mortal combat, let us know.

Al Jones
VP Marketing & Sales
Merwin Hulbert & Co.
al@merwinhulbertco.com

This message originated by: Merwin, Hulbery & Co., 6209 Mid Rivers Mall Drive, 315, Saint Charles, Missouri 63304
 
Very interesting...

unfortunately I'm more of a low bucks collector... but if I have a good year, I could see getting one with my 2010 year end bonus... so I'll just have to wait ( & drool ) on the 1st guns released...

BTW... my main interests would lie in 3" - 4" or so barrel guns in 38 S&W / Special, & 44 Special... looking forward to seeing whats coming...
 
Having owned and shot a couple of originals I look forward to this coming to fruition. That said, if they too pricy they will fail due to lack of consumption. That and the drop in cowboy action shooting may have a detrimental effect on this effort.
Don't count the chickens until the eggs hatch. By the way this has been ongoing for a long time, progress seems painfully slow.
 
I sincerely wish the new company luck, but in all honesty I doubt there is a lot of demand for that design beyond novelty sales. While the idea of a gun that extracts only the fired cases sounds good, in fact the M-H is not a very fast gun to reload since it must be loaded through a gate in the rear just like an SAA Colt. No speed loaders, no dumping in rounds like an S&W breaktop.

And of course the gun today has to be made to match the ammo. In the old days M-H/H&A was big enough to have their own .32 M-H ammunition made, but that is most likely not feasible today. I have no idea how they could get the .45 ACP to work, since moon clips can't be used, and .45 Colt, with its small rim, would be iffy.

Jim
 
Not to carry their water, but I can answer a few concerns, as I've had similar questions:

"Where are the pictures? "

check the link to their website

re: reload:

take a look at their version of the 'break FRONT'....

I've only had an original in my hands once about 20 years ago and didn't grasp all the details.

Their news release will require re-reading to glean the details.

I did see a price of "$1200" range ....but who knows.

I sure ain't ordering one till I see 'em in the flesh.
 
Looking at their catalog they are going to do 45LC, 44Spl, 38 and 357, 44-40 and 44 Russian. Interesting guns, but $1200 is a bit high for me. I don't know anything about them, so I don't know how that market is.
 
While the idea of a gun that extracts only the fired cases sounds good, in fact the M-H is not a very fast gun to reload since it must be loaded through a gate in the rear just like an SAA Colt. No speed loaders, no dumping in rounds like an S&W breaktop.
Can't M&Hs also be reloaded by separating the two frame halves and swapping cylinders? I seem to recall that this was one of the benefits of the design.
 
"Where are the pictures? "
check the link to their website

I went there. The only two small pictures I saw were on the front page.

The absence of photographs indicates to most people we're talking about vapor guns. I've already heard "Coming soon!" and "Soon!" and "Any day now!"
 
.45 ACP and .45 Colt chambering?

Jim Keenan said:
I have no idea how they could get the .45 ACP to work, since moon clips can't be used, and .45 Colt, with its small rim, would be iffy.
Jim, aren't you familiar with the Ruger Blackhawks in .45 Colt funished with an extra .45 ACP cylinder? And, once upon a time, I owned an after market Colt SAA cylinder that would handle BOTH ACP and Auto Rim cartridges. The cylinder chamber shoulders were just cut in a manner similar to a .45 auto barrel, in which the cartridge headspaces on the case mouth.

Ruger has done the same thing with their .357 SAs, with a 9x19 cylinder. Admittedly, extraction is easier with an SA ejector system, but I'm sure it could be worked out on a DA. S&W did it with their model 547 9mm Military & Police DA revolver.

As to the .45 Colt chambering - - Colt's (formerly) and S&W (currently) have both chambered DA revolvers for that fine old cartridge. Yes, the rim is a bit thin, but it's perfectly workable.

Best,
Johnny
 
I'd buy a nickle plated small .32 from them so as to match the trimmings on my garters and bustier.


WilddressforsucessAlaska ™
 
WA

WilddressforsucessAlaska ™

Look Mommy, Look! It is the first bear out of hibernation! It's kind of scraggily, and where is that smell coming from?

Welcome back Wildalaska!
 
I'm really glad to see someone is resurrecting this design, but I'm not, under any circumstances, going to fork over $250 non refundable before I have a chance to examine one in detail.
 
I agree with Mike about not paying until I see one.

And I don't think that I agree with Jim Keenan about it loading too slow. People who buy these (should that day ever come to pass) are not buying to use in some sort of IPSC-like competition.

Although somebody would. I just know somebody would. :)

Bart Noir
Who wants one.
 
Hi, Johnny Guest,

Yes, I am familiar with revolvers that use the .45 ACP cartridge. I have dual cylinder Rugers in both the .45 ACP/.45 Colt and the .357 Magnum/9mm Luger. I also have Colt and S&W Model 1917 revolvers, and four M-H revolvers.

However, it is obvious that you are not familiar with the way the M-H works.

There is a fixed ring extractor that is part of the frame. When you load a cartridge through the loading gate, the inside of the rim is captured by that ring. That way, when you open the gun by pulling the cylinder forward, the extractor ring holds the case back against the frame. The distance the cylinder moves forward is adjusted for the particular round so if a bullet is still in the cartridge, there is not enough room for the cartridge to drop free. But if there is no bullet, the case is too short for the gap and drops out. (It usually takes some jiggling, though.) That is why M-H .32 revolvers will work right only with .32 M-H cartridges; .32 S&W is too short, .32 S&W Long is too long.

So a rimless .45 ACP shoved into a M-H cylinder will miss the extractor ring and will not be withdrawn from the chamber when the gun is opened. Since there is no other extractor, no ejection rod, and a moon clip won't work, the cases would have to be pushed out with a rod or pried out with a fingernail.

The M-H design also works against using different length cartridges. If the revolver were made for .357 Magnum, for example, it would not work right with .38 Special, since all the cartridges, fired and unfired, would be short enough to drop free.

I do note that the latest mentioned list of cartridges does not mention .45 ACP.

Jim
 
Well, now, THAT's embarrassing.

:o Jim, I dunno how I could possibly have presumed you could possibly be unfamiliar with the examples I mentioned. I underestimated you, and I apologize. Mea culpa, sir.

I guess I'd better hurry and admit that I've only handled one M-H revolver, and never loaded or fired it. Now, having exposed my ignorance of the type, I'll ask what's probably a silly question. Since the new company is making some leetle modifications for their new production anyway, would it be possible to incorporate a spring-loaded finger extractor such as S&W used on the M547? Or is there too little room in the M&H extractor ring to accomodate such an arrangement?

Yes, I also noticed the latest list didin't show .45 ACP as a possible caliber. I wonder, though - - I've always had a sneaking affection for the .45 Auto Rim . . . .

I guess I'd best do some looking at the Dallas Market Hall Gun Show later this month. There's bound to be someone I know that'll let me fondle a Merwin.

Best,
Johnny
 
re: "I'm really glad to see someone is resurrecting this design, but I'm not, under any circumstances, going to fork over $250 non refundable before I have a chance to examine one in detail."

me too.

And I'm waiting...patiently....sort of....:cool:
 
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