Member Needing Guidance On My Next Rifle

J

JW74

New member
Hi everyone,

I am looking to get back into some recreational bench rest/long range shooting. A little about myself, I am an avid sporting clays shooter and compete nationally at the Master Class level and really enjoy the clays game! I did a little bench rest shooting when I was younger with a rem 700 varmint riffle in 7mm-08. With hand loads it was a tack driver if I did my part. I didn't shoot much over 300 yards as that was as far as I could go at my local range. Lately I have wanted to start shooting riffles again to take a break from shooting clays from time to time.

My goal it to have a set up that is good out to 1000 yards and possibly one day make a mile shot, but that is a longer term goal for down the road. I have narrowed my riffle search to two riffles that are affordable to me. I am thinking of a 300 WSM as it is non belted and has a large bullet selection for re-loading. The 7mm WSM is also on the list. The two riffles I am looking at that are in my price range are:

1) Savage 111 Long Range Hunter

2) Sako A7 Long-Range Hunter - exclusive to Cabela's

I was hoping the gang here could give some pros and cons for each or comment on which is clearly the better riffle in terms of accuracy ect. I like the muzzle brake option and trigger on the Savage. I think with the 300 WSM the muzzle brake would be good for higher volume shooting. Also like the adjustable comb on the Savage. I feel like the stock is better on the Sako though and the barrel appears to be heavier but has no muzzle brake. As for an optic, I have been looking at the Vortex Viper PST riffle scope.

Thanks for any feedback as it is greatly appreciated.
Joe
 
Frankly, neither.

You don't need a magnum to get to 1000 yards.

Do you still have the 7mm-08? That is plenty capable out to 1000 yards.

If you are set on getting a new rifle, the various 6.5s (.260, creedmoor, 6.5-284, 6.5-06, even the venerable 6.5x55 Swede)will do nearly as well as the .300 magnum at that range, with ~30 grains less powder per round, recoil and greater barrel life.
 
I use a .308 right now for 1000yards, however I am looking to get a 6.5 Creedmoore. Check out the 6.5's great BC's and still a good selection to reload from. Frankly I have never been a fan of WSM and as stated magnums are not needed for 1000 yards.

As for rifles... I have older Sako hunting rifles I love, but I would not buy it for this.

The savage would be a good starting point. They are affordable, and out of the box very accurate. Have some stock options (not as much as Remington)

I like Remington actions as well, they always worked for me, and the aftermarket it definitely the easiest and most abundant.

My current .308 is a Kimber 8400 Advanced Tactical with a Vortex Razor HD 5-20x56mm.

I love my gun but Kimber doesn't offer more than two calibers in it unfortunately.

Another thing that is very important is mounts and glass. To do it right.. expect to pay about the same on the glass as you do for the rifle, they right glass makes a huge difference at range. I love my Vortex, lifetime warranty, super clear, and tracks correctly.

http://www.savagearms.com/firearms/finder/

That wouldn't be a bad start, if not just even leaving it factory. I would personally probably replace the stock even though HS is good, I like something with an adjustable comb and more of a pistol like grip like my McMillan A5.
 
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I'm a fan of the WSM line of cartridges but for your stated purpose I have to agree with what has been written above. The 7WSM is a wonderful 1000 yard cartridge but by the time you get your load worked up and shoot a few hundred rounds practicing it's getting about time for a new barrel. The 300WSM does not burn out the barrel nearly as fast but it is harder on your shoulder than the 308 Winchester. My advice is you reconsider your cartridge choice.

As for rifles I like Savage and Remington 700's. They lead the pack in aftermarket parts and for benchrest/tactical rifles that may mean something to you down the road.
 
Thanks for the feedback, it's much appreciated! I still have the 7-08 but it is back in Canada where I grew up and I'm not sure how much hassle it would be to get it down here with me now. I like the 6.5's a lot but heard that barrel life with the 6.5-284 can be fairly short like that of the 7mm WSM. I also was thinking of going with a caliber that was common for the times that I needed to be able to find ammo if I didn't have any hand loads worked up. The 308 has always been a favorite of mine but I guess I was worried if I ever tried going out past a 1000 yards shooting steel that I may not have enough gun to get there. I will definitely consider the 308 or possibly another 7-08. I was thinking 300 WSM as several of my friends here shoot 300 win mags for their tactical riffles and rave about them.
 
the savage is a good practical choice,if you have 8K laying around you cant beat Jerret rifles.the Cooper is good to

if all your doing is target shooting a .260 rem. or 7mm-08 shoots nicely out to a 1000.
for deer or antalope try 7mm rem ulta mag.300 RUM or 30 or .338-378 WB
 
Buy yourself a savage target action

And build up from there. Seriously look at .264 bullets, high ballistic coefficients without the recoil of the .308 bullets.
 
I also was thinking of going with a caliber that was common for the times that I needed to be able to find ammo if I didn't have any hand loads worked up.
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I really don't think became a concern until it started getting passed around the internet.

I mean, don't do that. Other than a zombie apocalypse, you're pretty much going to know when you plan to use your rifle, yes?

I just can't envision a scenario where I need 500 rounds and I forgot to load them or I left them at home or I don't have time to load them.

Anyway, having no concern about ammo availability is THE BIGGEST REASON I like reloading. It frees my mind. I couldn't care less what's at the store. I buy and shoot what I want, not what some manufacturer thought I should want.

On the choice of cartridge, I would have no interest whatsoever in any sort of magnum for target work. They're no fun to shoot, either because the recoil destroys your shoulder or the brake destroys your ears and makes enemies at the range.

They're also simply unnecessary. You can shoot a 556 out to 1000 yards.... or a .243 or .308 or any of untold dozens of other choices, that are actually pleasant to shoot and don't consume a 1/2 pound of powder every 20 rounds of ammo and, if you really MUST be concerned about ammo availability, you'd be hard pressed to beat .308 and the many similar cartridges.
 
JW74 said:
Thanks for the feedback, it's much appreciated! I still have the 7-08 but it is back in Canada where I grew up and I'm not sure how much hassle it would be to get it down here with me now. I like the 6.5's a lot but heard that barrel life with the 6.5-284 can be fairly short like that of the 7mm WSM.
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Yes, the 6.5-284 and 6.5-06 are barrel burners. The more mild 6.5s are reportedly much less so. Top accuracy for the 6.5-284 or -6 will likely drop off after 1000 rounds or so, .260 and Creedmoor should be more like 3000, and the .308 5000 or more.

For that price you get ~200 FPS more velocity, which works out to about .7 MOA less wind at 1000 yards in a 10 MPH full value wind (using the 140 AMAX at 2700 and 2900 FPS)

Actual life will vary based on the quality and rifling of the barrel, and how you load and shoot (hot loads and long strings vs milder loads and short strings).

This is also "top" accuracy, the point where a competitive shooter will be shopping for a new barrel. Recreational shooters can go farther, if they are willing to put up with slightly reduced accuracy.

JW74 said:
I also was thinking of going with a caliber that was common for the times that I needed to be able to find ammo if I didn't have any hand loads worked up. The 308 has always been a favorite of mine but I guess I was worried if I ever tried going out past a 1000 yards shooting steel that I may not have enough gun to get there. I will definitely consider the 308 or possibly another 7-08. I was thinking 300 WSM as several of my friends here shoot 300 win mags for their tactical riffles and rave about them.
Click to expand...

If you have a reloading manual, look at what is offered in heavy for caliber match bullets, and compare the velocity and BCs. Go out to Midway or Grafs and see if they are actually available. Run the numbers in a good ballistics program, and look at the wind numbers at long range and see what the actual differences are in a given condition. Ignore drop, for known distance LR target shooting it is irrelevant.

jmr40 said:
I don't shoot 1000 yards, but I do shoot 300 WSM. There may be better choices, but the a 300 WSM holds the 1000 yard benchrest record. It can't be a bad choice.

Ten shots, 2.815" @ 1000 yards
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Comparing a heavy benchrest rifle with a 30" barrel to something that is fired from the shoulder is not apples to apples. It is not even apples to oranges, more apples to watermelon.
 
Today I went into one of my local gun shops and they had a Savage 10FPSR .308 on the shelf for $599. It looks like a solid gun and I have read that it is very accurate out of the box. I am considering this as it is cheaper than the others and a good caliber for target shooting. Has anyone here has any experience with the Savage 10FPSR?
 
I too have not heard anything bad about them. I'm in the process of saving up for a new tactical rifle and after much research the Model 10 is at the top of my list so I don't think you could go wrong getting one.
 
Thanks a lot for the responses everyone! As with the recommendations here I am leaning towards a Savage but likely away from a magnum cartridge for now. In my searching through the gun shops and from help I have received here I am thinking I may end up starting out with a 308 or the 6.5 Creedmoor. I like the .308 for all of the loading data available and I really like the 6.5 for its bullet selection and ballistic attributes. An old gunsmith I knew growing up swore by his sporterized 6.5x55 Swedish and I an see why.

The Savage 10FPSR .308 I saw earlier today had a decent stock and heavy barrel. The Savage 111 LRH I am looking at has a thinner barrel for sure but also comes with an adjustable cheek piece and muzzle break. Price is about $200 more. My question is will I loose much accuracy with the thinner 26" barrel on the Savage 111 LRH over that of the Savage 10FPSR?

Also, I now have the Savage model 12 LRP in 6.5 on my radar!
 
There's no accuracy difference between various barrel profiles. Poor quality barrels will shift point of impact as they heat up but good ones won't. It also depends on contact points between the stock/barrel. (There shouldn't be any.)

You might also consider building your own gun, based on a Savage Target Action. It's really quite easy and quite gratifying. It also allows you (just like reloading) to get what YOU want instead of what Savage decides you should have for a barrel, cartridge and stock.

Pick your own stock, barrel, profile, length, cartridge, finish, flutes, etc, etc. You can figure being into it about $1000-$1500, depending on what you spend on a stock.
 
Thanks Brian. I may end up doing just that so I don't have to settle for something I don't 100% want in the end.
 
As Brian suggests building one is very fun, and you can make what you.. and your wallet wants. Savages are a good starting off point as the barrel install is easier for non professionals due to their barrel nut system.

Brian is also right in saying different barrel tapers in therory are not more or less accurate, but this is where craftsmanship and the old saying "you get what you pay for" kicks in.

Most production sporter weight barrels will heat up and open up group size, or shift POI. Barrels that were made well, started off as thick blanks, and slowly turned down to a lighter weight can be just as accurate as a bull barrel, however on mass production guns, to keep prices reasonable this isn't always the case.

Also people tend to shake a little less noticeably on a heavier barrel gun, also takes some recoil impulse away.

Brian is right it is not needed for accuracy, but I prefer heavy contour barrels.

Manufacturing processes have come a long way however. A stock Savage, Remington, you name it, should have no problems hitting at 1000 yards, it is more up to the shooter and the ammo and reading the conditions. Clearly you can spend big bucks on precision long range rifles to squeeze every bit out which is nice.
 
If within your budget, get a 6 or 6.5 mm round-chambered rifle - 6XC, 6x47, 6 creedmoor, .243 with tight twist, 6.5x47, 6.5 creedmoor, .260 rem, 6.5-284, 6.5mm-'06.

Maaaaaybe a 7mm - .280 rem, .280 rem AI, .284 win, 7mm WSM, 7mm RSAUM, if it's a dual-use rifle; both hunting and paper-punching.

The .300 WSM is a good round for long-range large- to very-large game hunting, but way overkill (unnecessary cost, recoil, etc.) for shooting paper at long ranges, IMO.

http://precisionrifleblog.com/2013/12/17/best-rifle-caliber-what-the-pros-use/

Do NOT overlook the practicality of a .243 win with a non-standard twist (custom barrel) - then you have the best of all worlds: standard, very popular round, and outstanding long-range round.

But in the end, limited to those choices, the Sako will give you much more joy and pride of ownership over time, in my opinion.

I really don't think became a concern until it started getting passed around the internet.

I mean, don't do that. Other than a zombie apocalypse, you're pretty much going to know when you plan to use your rifle, yes?

I just can't envision a scenario where I need 500 rounds and I forgot to load them or I left them at home or I don't have time to load them.

Anyway, having no concern about ammo availability is THE BIGGEST REASON I like reloading. It frees my mind. I couldn't care less what's at the store. I buy and shoot what I want, not what some manufacturer thought I should want.
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Truth.
 
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Thanks for all of the feedback everyone. It was really helpful. I settled on a riffle and purchased the Savage model 12 LRP in 6.5 Creedmoor. For an optic I went with the Vortex Viper PST 6-24x50. I'm really happy with the setup and can't wait to take it out and enjoy it. The more I learned about the 6.5 Creedmoor the more I realized it was right up my ally for what I was looking to do with my riffle.
 

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I absolutely love vortex optics, and I am jealous you picked up a 6.5 creedmoore before me.:rolleyes:

Def need to post some shots of the rifle and the groups once you get her settled in.

As for Vortex, my .308 Kimber Advanced Tactical wears the Vortex Razor HD 5-20x56, my two shooting buddies have the 6-24x Viper PST's and love them, as do I they work great. I have a 1-4x on order for my LWRC REPR.
 
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