Medical question about handguns

J

John/az2

New member
I know this has been posted before, but I wanted to reiterate it again.

My wife took one of our children in to see the doctor. One of the questions the doctor asked was, "Do you own any handguns?"

I am kicking myself for not warning my wife about the possibility of that question being asked. Trustingly she answered it, and the follow-up question, "Are they locked up?"

She told me about it when she got home, and I calmly (it was tough) explained to her that it was none of their business and had nothing to do with the medical condition of our child. Plus, after it leaves the doctor's hands who knows who's eyes will be scanning that form.

GAD! Thank Goodness, she understood...

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John/az

"The middle of the road between the extremes of good and evil, is evil. When freedom is at stake, your silence is not golden, it's yellow..." RKBA!

www.quixtar.com
referal #2005932
 
John, I know how you feel. I attempted to warn my wife ahead of time, just in case. She doesn't believe me that it's a question they might ask. I agree, it's none of thier business.

I think I convinced her to not answer the question, but I'm not sure. Will check tonight to see if she remembers. If not, I'll point her to this subject :)
 
An interesting article on the hypocrisy of the medical community by Martin L. Fackler, MD, can be found here.

A poignant quote from the above source...

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>"Believing the propaganda that "assault-rifle” bullets cause "unpredictable damage at sites far from the wound tract” and that they cause mortality rates "4 to 5 times higher than…low-velocity bullet wounds” can easily lead the unsuspecting surgeon to remove excessive amounts of healthy tissue from around bullet wounds if they suspect the wound might have been made by a dreaded "assault rifle” bullet. Thus a shooting victim can become more crippled from the damage done by the surgeon than from that done by the bullet."[/quote]

It also does well to remember that medical "misadventures" cause many times the deaths of all firearms casualtities numbers combined. One could ask the doctor as a retort "Are your scalpels locked up?".

The physician can't claim a mere interest in safety if they didn't also inquire as to your ownership of household chemicals, electrical sockets, plastic bags, 5-gallon buckets or the multitude of other common objects which are involved in child mortality on a regular basis. Indeed, the greatest threat to your child's health was most likely the car trip to the doctor's office!
 
I have taken my daughter to the Doctor plenty of times and not once did they ask this question. What does that question have to do with a visit to the doctor? I dont think its any of their business.
 
I agree with George about changing doctors and with Miss D. that it's none of the doctor's business.

I would not trust a physician who demonstrated so little wisdom and such vast arrogance as to buy into anti-gun hysteria and then try to hawk it to his or her patients :(

[This message has been edited by jimmy (edited September 17, 1999).]
 
I wouldn't want to be around an anti-gun lunatic who had sharp weapons and cabinets full of deadly drugs.

Jim
 
I've never been asked by our Pediatrician about guns whenever my girls have been in his office, but then again, I rarely ever take my kids to the doctor anyway...(they're safer staying away- that's my belief)

OTOH, I do know of women who have been asked that and also questions about schooling, spanking beliefs, etc..,

If my Doc ever asks me any ?'s not related to my kids well-being, I'll drop him real fast. It's none of their beez-wax whether or not we own guns, whether we homeschool or public school, or whether we spank or not.

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"First shalt thou take out the Holy Pin, then shalt thou count to three, no more, no less. Three shalt be the number thou shalt count, and the number of the counting shalt be three. Four shalt thou not count, neither count thou two, excepting that thou then proceed to three. Five is right out. Once the number three, being the third number, be reached, then lobbest thou thy Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch
towards thou foe, who being naughty in my sight, shall snuff it." The Book of Armaments CH 2, vs.9-21
 
One of our Admins, Mykl, has in his sig...."follow the money"


I bring my baby son in for a sniffle or skin rash or earache....
Now, why would a Dr ask such questions? Is he/she just a zealot? part of an HMO? Insurance policy changes?

Regardless of the reason I'm outta there, after a few choice words. However, being curious and suspicious, I'd like to know the reason for such questions. And who gets the info from the Dr.? Perhaps a call to the local newspaper's investigative reporter may flush out some answers ;)

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"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes" RKBA!
 
That would be a good trail to put a blood hound onto.

Lets see...
Doc
Clinic
HMO
Insurance
Feds

I am bad with the medical practice - but it looks like it rolls down hill.

Thank heavens my wife is an herbalist and we dont need to go into the Doc'c clutches... Treat at home for EVERYTHING YOU CAN. We have gotten to the point that the only thing we would need a Doc for is for a broken bone... But give us some time... we will be able to fix that too!

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"There is no limit to stupidity. Space itself is said to be bounded by its own curvature, but stupidity continues beyond infinity."
RAGE AGAINST THE MACHINE
The Critic formerly known as Kodiac
 
Darthmaum: Forget Area 51. Scene 21 is one of the funniest of all time. I just noticed your sig, you may enjoy the link. http://bau2.uibk.ac.at/sg/python/Scripts/HolyGrail/grail-21.html
21-caerb.jpg

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CCW for Ohio action site.
http:/www.ofcc.net

[This message has been edited by Hal (edited September 18, 1999).]

[This message has been edited by Hal (edited September 18, 1999).]
 
I have spent alot of times with Doctors and the medical profession.
They see the world thru a very small window and that view is all about medicine.
They are pretty naive about alot of what really goes on in the world because of this.
I'd have a good talk with the doctor and pin his ass down about what he thinks.
If he cops an attitude change doctors, as later when his medical opinion is ever challenged he will inflexible then too.
They aren't gods, just well paid human mechanics.
 
I am a doctor. I have been a shooter for 15 years.
I obviously am pro-gun & pro-SA or I wouldn't be posting to these boards.
Unfortunately, with high intelligence & lots of formal education comes the naive perspective that "I know everything" for some physicians, and the hubris to consider that gun-rights issues are a medical problem, which is false.
If your pediatrician is going to ask about guns in the home, he should also (to be consistent) ask about ladders, sharp corners on tables & cupboards, whether the children are left unattended in the bathtub or with electrical equipment, and if the snow and ice are always removed from your sidewalk in winter.
SAFETY IS NOT A MEDICAL ISSUE! CHILD SAFETY IS NOT A PEDIATRIC MEDICAL ISSUE! Medicine deals with the treatment of disease, and within the field of Preventive Medicine, with the control of risk factors for disease. It is not the province of medicine to protect us from ourselves or from all "the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune" in the world. Does any parent welcome the arrogant intrusion of these sorts of questions into private life? Might as well ask about the parents' personal habits and avocations. ("Do you smoke crack? Are you a member of an organised crime family?")
I have followed the biased & dishonest gun-related studies published in JAMA (Journal of the American Medical Association, an organisation to which I don't belong, by choice), for several years. Without exception (for the examples of which I'm aware), these "studies" use biased samples, small sample sizes, and inappropriate statistical techniques to "demonstrate" a predetermined conclusion, that guns, mostly handguns, are in one way or another, "unhealthy", "harmful" or associated with criminality.
THIS IS PSEUDO-SCIENCE. It is poor science in any case, being an example of the application of dubious social science methods, not pure scienctific investigation, with the obvious intent to espouse a particular (anti-gun) viewpoint by performing a "study", the report of which is clothed in the trappings of "science", though critical review of the studies always convinces that the "investigators" aret lacking integrity & objectivity. (In objective application of the scientific method, a null hypothesis is tested by the application of a condition or stimulus to a test group, and a control group of identical or "matched" subjects is given a placebo stimulus or condition, and responses are tabulated and analysed with the null hypothesis, that is, the assumption that there are no outcome differences, being accepted or rejected to a level of acceptable statistical probability, usually 5%.) Junk science doesn't belong in the pages of any peer-reviewed medical-scientific journal, and the political bias of JAMA is what the publication of such articles demonstrates, nothing more.
I'm not alone in this opinion, though physicians who think as I do are certainly in the minority among doctors as a group. For those interested, there is a website for Doctors for Integrity in Policy Research at www.dipr.org, wherein articles about these issues are available for review.
Sorry for the rant, but it's a related issue.
Regarding the pediatrician noted above, it is likely that he/she is naive or anti-gun or at least inclined to be officious. He/she may nonetheless be a good pediatrician for those times your child is sick, and the decision to remain with said pediatrician is a personal one, obviously.
Sorry for the length of this post, just my $.04.

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"Potius sero quam nunquam."
 
Good post, Sawbones. Maybe we should start a new forum for pro-RKBA members of commonly (and often rightly) maligned professions and social groups. I'll cover teachers, you cover doctors, and maybe Miss Demeanors or somebody can speak for moms? ;)

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Don

"Hey you, let's fight!"
"Them's fightin' words!"
 
Of doctors, guns and thing Pythonesque...

Doctor Good morning.

Mrs. O Oh, morning, doctor.

Doctor How's the old arm this morning, Mrs. Ikon?

Mrs. Trepidatious Oh, it's still hanging off at the shoulder.

Doctor Good, well let's have a look at it, shall we? (he tries unsuccessfully to open his bag) Oh, damn, damn, damn, damn...damn this wretched, damn, bloody, little bag. It's the one thing I hate about being a doctor - it's this wretched bloody little bag!

He smashes a chair over it and finally produces a revolver and shoots the lock off. It opens and is stuffed full of pound notes, some of which spill out. He feels inside...eventually pulls out a stethoscope.

Doctor What's that doing in here? (he throws it away)

Cut to another doctor walking along a street. The stethoscope flies out of window and lands on him.

Second Doctor (brushing it off) Eurgggh!

Cut back to the first doctor still rummaging in black bag. Eventually he produces a pair of black kid gloves and a black hankerchief. He folds it and puts it on and points the gun at Mrs. Trepidatious.

Doctor Hand over the money! (she goes to a sideboard, opens the bottom drawer and gets out a money box which she gives to him) Come on, all of it! (she looks scared; he jabs the gun at her; she goes over to a painting of a wall-safe on the wall and pushes it aside to reveal an identical wall-safe underneath. She opens it and a hand comes out holding a money box; she takes and gives it to the doctor) Yes, that seems to be okay. Right! I'll just test your reflexes! (he opens his mac like a flasher; they scream and jump) Right, now then, everything seems to be okay, I'll see you next week. Keep collecting the pensions, and try not to spend too much on food.

Mrs. Trepidatious Thank you, doctor.

Cut to a hospital ward. A man in bed, a chair with his clothes on it at the foot of the bed. A doctor enters and goes right for the jacket and starts to feel in the pockets.

Doctor Morning, Mr. Henson...How are we today?

Henson Not too bad, doctor.

Doctor Okay, take it easy...(he empties his wallet and puts it back) Expecting any postal orders this week?

Henson No.

Doctor Righto.

A nurse comes and gets the loose change. The doctor goes to the next bed, where there is a man entirely in traction.

Doctor Ah, Mr. Rodgers, have you got your unemployment benefit, please? Right. Well, can you write a cheque then...please?

The patient writes him a cheque. He goes to the foot of the bed. There is a graph with a money symbol on it. He marks it down further.

Doctor Thank you very much. Soon have you down to nothing. Ah, Mr. Millichope. (he smiles and leaves, passing a man with a saline drip full of coins; clink of money)
 
RT,
Sky is supposed to be ABOVE you boy! Look thru the canopy! See all that dirt! Roll it over! Roll the danged plane over!

Now turn on your oxygen! We're at 14,000 feet, boy! Oxygen! Turn on your oxygen! :D :D :D

(Sheesh! Pilots these days crack me up. Whoops! Let me re-word that! ;) )
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John,
Thanks for the reminder. Monday I have to take my 87 y/o Mom to a new doctor.

(Change insurance, change doctors, do not pass Go! Do not collect $200. Lose 2 turns, then move to Pay Luxury Tax. (Bleah!)
 
Hello RepublicThunderbolt;
Pythonesque? As pertaining to him slain by Apollo?

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"Potius sero quam nunquam."
 
It does the medical community no good to have arrogant doctors weazel their way into areas in which they have no business or authority. Of course I'm speaking about this one questioned your wife. I have found that some people have the idea that those who are highly educated in one profession, whether it be medicine, education, religion, or whatever, are often exhaulted to a point of iconoclastic arrogance....idolatry. Sure, someone in medicine, like our friend here in this forum can be highly educated in many areas. The problem I have with some people is that they think the medical or scientific community is all knowing and that when a professional speaks about areas unrelated to their vocations, that they are always right. Unfortunately, unless humility and objective reality is a basis of education, professionals oftentimes find themselves believing that they are unfalable. Even when questioned about an area that they are trained in, the attitude is often insolence and arrogance that is easily offended is the result.

I would suspect that unless your child arrived in the ER with trauma resembling that of a gun wound, that this physician is arrogantly self decieved into believing the CDC's lies about firearms and confiscation tying in with their "medical" crusade. When the Center For Disease Control, and others in the medical establishment disseminate gun confiscation propaganda to promote thier socialistic agenda, it is hard to believe them when they speak of topics that ARE related to medicine.

Reminds me of "The Boy Who Cried Wolf" syndrome....

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"But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip; and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." -Jesus Christ (Luke 22:36, see John 3:15-18)
 
Equalizer,
Though I tend to agree with you, I'm sure the doctors on TFL could tell you horror stories about the administrative burdens placed upon them just in the last five years.

Both my daughters work in administrative areas of medicine. My wife is in in the treatment side of medicine. I am an EMT-Basic but I have not been active in EMS for several years. Yet I am mortified at the "improvements" in EMS that often require more time doing paperwork (AFTER the run ;) ) than engaging in patient care.

I suspect most doctors are simply trying to get the "suggested" (ie "required") paperwork out of the way so they can practice their healing arts. Medical practitioners at all levels have had so many "requirements" foisted upon them by the government and by insurance companies that they have become "numb". After a while, even doctors "are just following orders" with no malice intended or perceived.

Just another case of government requirements interfering with the process they deceitfully claim to improve.
 
Dennis,

What you say makes sense. Maybe it is just the administrative politics of the profession. I don't like to make blanket statements or paint any particular profession in the same brushstroke, so I take what you said as someone who's been there and knows more than I do about the situation first hand.

I still don't think it helps the credibility of any profession for the administration to enforce thier agenda upon its staff to ask such questions of thier patients. For expl., knowing what I know about the CDC's propaganda, thanks to Kates's research, I have to take with a handful of grains of salt what they say about issues such as infectious diseases. They have lost credibility with me. I have to look at articles throughout the profession in a more objective view, and consider whether information may be scewed by a hidden agenda, political, or economic.

I find that the same bias that's found among the rest of the world abounds in the scientific community. At the local colleges, there are many hypothesis taught as fact, even though the hypothesis and evidences have been disproven and found to be hoaxes over a decade ago. Its in every profession where you find a human beings.
 
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