Me & the Lee collet neck-only size die (.223)

S

Sevens

New member
Hi folks, I'm still paying attention here when I can even though I've been fairly quiet for a long stretch. As a background and in the interest of full disclosure, keep in mind that I am a hardcore, hobbyist handloader that has been knee-deep in this game for more than three decades however probably north of 95% of that has been with straight wall handgun across a long list of chamberings. My experience is fairly high volume handgun stuff, my bench tends to spit out somewhere between a low of 6,000 a year to a high somewhere north of 15k.

I say the above to make it clear that I have really never done much more than dabbled in bottle neck rifle. I enjoy rifles, but I'm a handgun guy through and through. However, I do an annual trip that has me hunting prairie dogs over three days each year and I obviously handload to feed that exercise.

It's interesting as I read all of the discussions that are very rifle specific as I try to pick up as much as I can, all the while knowing that it's never going to be my focus in this game. Particularly interesting over the last many months has been discussions on handloading for rifle accuracy and full length sizing versus other methods of partial sizing and neck sizing. Far be it from me to take many pages and full discussions over many months and wrap that all up in to one bold statement but my observation regarding this subject in our forum basically boils down to full length sizing every single time will result in a higher potential for accuracy.

I decided even before I began hunting prairie dogs that I was going to give the Lee collet neck-only size die a chance and now, with 7 years of trips under my belt (although only the last 6 have been with my handloads... had to start somewhere! ;)) that this tool from Lee has worked extremely well for me over a documented 2,500 loaded rounds and I'll use this thread to talk about why I wanted to try it, what I hoped to gain with it, what I've experienced and certainly... I hope to hear comments and outright criticisms of it and my observations also. :D It's been my experience that I either learn more -OR- I simply have a better base of what to keep an eye out for when I'm able to hear skepticism and criticism of any tools, methods or processes, so honest and respectful discussion as it relates to neck sizing or this particular tool are more than welcomed -- they are solicited.

As you have gathered if you don't know me... :eek: I'm long winded. I appreciate your patience. :D
 
There's many reasons that I'm not a rifle guy and I am a full-blown handgun guy, and handloading bottle neck rifle is one of those reasons. Full length sizing and case lube and the simple effort at the press lever (it's all relative, I mean compared to all the short, straight wall handgun brass...) makes bottle neck rifle a bit of a chore for me at the bench.

I had come up with the idea that the Lee collet neck-only size die would save me time and effort, less work in the press lever, no fooling with case lube (including neck lubing) and I had also pondered whether or not the use of this die over time would simply work my brass less... with the hopeful result of maybe less trimming and less or no occurrences of case head separation.

And I believe I'm far enough in to this now to say that my observations have led me to believe that I'm hitting every one of those bullet points! Now I believe that I'm sharp enough to admit straight away that MANY of what goes on with handloading (especially rifle) and internal ballistics is out of my sphere of care or understanding and I suppose this is my way of admitting that maybe I've made false assumptions and conclusions, and again, this is one of the main reasons that I opened this discussion. Please correct me at will if you think I'm full of hot air!

OOPS: I should have mentioned earlier that I'm using a Howa 1500 bolt action, .223 with a 24-inch heavy varmint barrel. I'm using the 50 grain V-Max and 25.7 grains of H-335 with the CCI-400 small rifle non-magnum primer.

Accuracy
Each year that I've done this trip, I've also wedged 2 or 3 range trips in between trips to obvious check, re-check and ensure that my gear and my ammo is ready for the action, and I'm happy to report that I do better each year and my confidence is basically, soaring. No, I'm nowhere near the level of most of you life long rifle guys and any of you folks that compete, but I'm to the point where if the wind is calm and I have properly ranged my target, it isn't any manner of difficult for me to blow up a prairie dog out to 400 yards every single time he chooses to sun himself.

Truly, there are only two obstacles to me wiping every single dog that I see when I'm out there. First is that figuring out the distance from me to the dog is often extremely difficult, and second is that when the wind picks up beyond about 10-15 mph (I'm guessing at the speed here), it gets really tough to smack 'em.

Brass life
Before year two of this adventure, I handloaded all my ammo for the trip and I started with about half of my brass being Fiocchi factory brass from the 50gr V-Max factory ammo that I hunted with in year one and the rest of my brass was random once-fired, mostly Lake City and some WCC 5.56 stuff.

2,500 rounds in and 6 years of using the same brass (give or take, I added some this year but that was excess ammo that didn't get used on the trip.) and I'm seeing zero case failures in any form. I'm finding zero split necks, no case head separation, no incipient case head separation and no struggle with primer pockets in any form. The original Fiocchi brass did need a trim after the first firing and I trimmed a bunch of the 5.56 brass years back also, but otherwise... I've skipped nearly all of the tedious and labor intensive brass prep work and I barely even get resistance with nearly all of the pieces when I close the bolt on my rifle. I'm not getting a "crush fit" feel when I chamber a round. These all feel more like factory ammo when I close the bolt. As for case length, if I see under 1.758" length on my fired brass, I don't trim it. And this year, I had ten pieces out of 396 fired rounds that are even approaching 1.760" and in the territory where I feel I should trim it for length.

Summary
I believe, based on discussions by so many fantastic minds and posters that we enjoy here in this part of the forum that the best accuracy is likely obtained from full length sizing, but my adventure and the time I'm able to devote to the project has me using the Lee collet neck-only size die and the results continue to tell me that I'm doing precisely what I should be doing. The prairie dogs that I obliterate range in size from perhaps 8-inches tall to maybe 14 inches tall for a huge one. I'm spitballing here, apologies if that isn't accurate... if you've ever hunted these suckers or had them invading your land, you know the size of the critters that I'm playing whack-a-mole with.

Hitting these guys every single time when I know how far away they are is, well, easy. And the V-Max bullets make up for ANY less than ideal hit, nobody walks away from a hit here. It's spaghetti and hamburger all over a mound if I don't miss. Yeah, I'll call it easy, all the while professing that in rifle marksmanship, I'm absolutely an amateur, especially in comparison to many of the folks around this area who's posts I enjoy so much. For me to hit more of these guys, I only need to make better use of my range finder, but that is truly a whole other side discussion. (short version: ranging flat land is extremely difficult for me for multiple reasons)

I hope some of you are still awake to toss up some replies, thanks for reading! :D
 
MORE INFO THAT IS WHOLLY RELEVANT!
When I first began using this die, I felt like I didn't get a ton of resistance while seating bullets... as if my neck was being re-sized, but NOT a lot, and that I wasn't getting confidence inspiring bullet pull/case mouth tension.

I took the die apart and chucked the mandrel in to my drill press and then I went pretty hard at it with either Flitz or steel wool or maybe it was a fine sandpaper... arrrgh, I typically keep quality notes on the things that I do (so that I can remember through repetition) but the bottom line is that I took the OD of the mandrel down ever so slightly and the net result is that I absolutely feel a difference in the die itself (when pulling the sized brass down and out of the die) and then again when seating bullets.

This little alteration instantly ramped up my confidence in the use of this die and the results have been well detailed in my posts above.
 
I have only been able to use hte FL dies for 223 due to shooting a semi auto gun. From what I Understand the LEE neck die is one of the best. In my reading it seems to go back and forth on which is more accurate, neck or FL. Based on my understanding neck would be more accurate as its squeezed on a mandril, vs having the expander pulled through. I would be really curious to see a side by side, exact same load, some neck some FL and see which shot better. Im hoping to neck neck size for my 30-06 for the reasons you listed, ease of reloading, and being gentle on the brass.
 
You probably have discovered the right method for your circumstances. All you describe is perfectly possible if your chamber is coaxial with your bore and your bolt face is square to that bore line and you are not shooting a load at extreme pressure levels. I shot endless cloverleaves with my Remington 600 in 222 Rem using a target model Lee Loader to neck-size and then seat bullets in the case. My gun happened to be a copy that didn't need "blueprinting" because it was already true. The 222 is not a very high-pressure round (46,000 CUP, 50,000 psi MAPs), so the cases kept springing back a little after firing and never seemed to fatten to the point I got bolt closing resistance or other signs they needed full-length resizing. Instead, they kept on chambering just fine and with no bolt closing resistance. As long as that is happening, you still have a small gap in the case fit in the chamber that gets you the same self-centering that shoulder "bumping" gets you. The cases aren't growing appreciably because you aren't F.L. resizing. All-in-all, in those circumstances, the approach you have works just fine.
 
Would you say it is a viable, possibly accurate conclusion to expect that since I am not F/L sizing and thus not working the case body in both directions that my likelihood of a case head separation is very low?

I’ve never had one, but my biggest worry is that a case head separation in the field could end a hunting day. I keep a short rod and copper brushes in my kit to (hopefully?) extract a failed case, but obviously I’d prefer to avoid it.
 
I agree that is a really good write-up! I agree with the author in that a cam-over press such as a Rock Chucker truly would be perfect but I’ll note that I’m using a Lee Classic Cast, so it’s fair to say that a cam-over press would simply be more consistent than I can “feel” simply by press handle resistance.

But it seems our success and satisfaction with the die are running together! :D
 
I use the lee collet neck sizing die for several cartridges, and am happy with the results I get with it.
I mainly use it for mil surplus rifles that have generous chambers- neck sizing only tends to extend brass life for me.
I have noticed a very slight improvement in group size for a few of my other rifles. The difference is slight though.
A quick example- I have a 22-250 that was consistently shooting .75" at 100 yards. ( probably about 50+ 5 shot groups). switching to the lee collet die resulted in a .65" average. ( 75+ 5 shot groups).YMMV
 
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