maybe a little bummed may need to rebarrel my Remington 700 heavy barrel...

M

Magnum Wheel Man

New member
it was my FIL's rifle, a beautiful vintage heavy barrel 223... I've shot it some in the past, but put a nice new scope on it over the winter... & tried to really wring it out this summer... it's looking like the best it'll shoot, is between 1.5 & 2 MOA... had it out again this weekend & finally sighted in the new scope at 100 yards, on a perfectly calm morning, then took it out to 200, then to 300 yards, using some Winchester 50 grain soft point ammo... shot a 5" 200 yard 9 shot group, & a 7" 300 yard 6 shot group...

I wasn't paying as much attention, back then, but think this was my FIL's main "P dogging" rifle, & I can think of one week, where he loaded a 1000 rounds, & went out for 2-3 days, when he came home, his buddy came over & asked if he wanted to go out "P dogging"... so he loaded up another 1000 rounds, & went out a 2nd time that same week, & came home the 2nd time with another 1000 rounds shot up... so 2000 rounds shot in 4-5 days

I had hoped it would be Ok for my slow paced range use... but after shooting 1/3 MOA groups with my newer 17 Fireball on a windy day, a couple weeks before, I guess I'm not satisfied...

so... now I have 2 thoughts... usually it's the chamber throat, so I could take the original barrel, cut a little off the chamber end, & thread it a little deeper & freshen the chamber... however this is one of the older barrels, I think it';s a 1 in 14" or at best, 1 in 12" twist, so it limits me to 55 grain or lighter bullets... or I could pick up a new faster twist barrel, maybe a 1 in 9" & install it on the gun ??? I'd actually like to shoot 68-69 grain bullets, so even though I would have loved to keep the nicely polished & blued original barrel on the gun, maybe it's time for a faster twist stainless barrel ???

thoughts ???
 
If you're going to use the gun more with the faster twist barrel then I would go that route. I think I understand the sentimental value of keeping the old barrel but it's better to have the gun and shoot it than to make it a safe queen IMO.
 
now that I have all the rifles in a group, I'm looking at bullet weights, & trying to determine best bullet weights to develop loads for, giving good variety through the calibers.... for example, 20 grain in the 17 Fireball, 40-50 grain in the K Hornet, 68-69 grain ( or heavier ) for the 223 would be ideal... I would have been OK with 55 grain in the 223, but I can actually load 55 grain with good accuracy in my fast twist Hornet... .243 I haven't decided on a bullet weight yet I have loaded both 75 & 100 grain in the past... I may look for something around 90 grains just trying to have a bullet weight that "justifies" the extra powder

ALLEN... it is in a group of rifles that I intend to take a couple out every weekend to shoot for recreation... so... I was hoping to shoot it quite a bit
 
Heavier bullets are not the best choice for p-dogs(or anything else smaller than 100#). I have an AR that likes 69 HPBT and I've shot it at some coyotes at 300-350 yards--bullet performance was unsatisfactory. At this point, I've decided to go back to the 22/250 for coyotes over 300 yards and drop back to 40-50 grain "tipped" bullets in .223 for closer shots.
Considering the cost of having the barrel set back, you need to decide what you expect and what you'll accept. If you're determined to continue using heavy bullets--don't bother. I have a super accurate(crow killer @ 300 yards) 220 Swift barrel that I got really cheap simply because the previous owner didn't like being restricted to 50 grain bullets.
 
I don't have much interest in "P Dogs" but that 17 Fireball at 4000 fps does an explosive job on small animals... shot a medium sized skunk in the yard a couple weeks ago... it left the farm dog trying to figure out which chunk was bigger to carry around like a prize ( his usual ritual after we shoot farm yard varmints ), with which I usually use a 17 Mach 2, at about 3000 fps... the extra 1000 fps has explosive results... I'd suspect the 40 grain varmint Express in the fast twist 22 K Hornet would do fine on "P Doggies" as well...

the 223 might see a couple coyotes, but will mostly just be shooting paper...
 
I do ;)

so to question this differently... would a gun like this be "worth" more with the Remington stamps on the barrel ( rechambering the factory barrel )... or with a new barrel, with a starting "zero" round count ???

there is no way to know how many rounds were put down the pipe, & / or how hot the barrel has gotten in the past... plus there is always the chance that rechambering, & or recrowning may do nothing for the accuracy, even if the barrel's rifling looked decent...

my 1st instinct is always to put a new barrel on... anyone remembering my pics may also remember I have no issue with a blued action, & a stainless barrel
 
Unlicensed Dremel said:
taylorce, you don't think he'd do better at 300 on a windy day with 68-70s?
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The difference in drift between 40-70 grain bullets is negligible at 300 yards. 300 yards is short range shooting and there will be .5" or less wind drift in a full value wind between light and heavy bullets. So, no I don't think heavy bullets will help at 300 yards.

As far as to worth, are you going to ever sell the rifle? If not, then what does it matter. I prefer new barrels but if an old barrel can be saved for most people who don't have machinist buddies, saving a barrel is about 1/3 the cost or less of installing a new barrel.
 
Ahhh, I see. OK. I will buy that.

Well I think the value is about the same whether re-barreled or not. Some people like the original parts all together, but some like the newer lower-round-count barrel if you sell. Since it's not a super collectible rifle, the new barreled one might be slightly more valuable, depending upon barrel type - brand, profile, fluting, material, etc.
 
Get the copper out, before you do anything else to the rifle.

Make sure the throat is clean.
Make sure the bore is clean.

Then just kiss the crown to clean it up.
Give it another shot.


I'd bet that any 'problem' that barrel has is due to copper fouling, rather than any notable wear or erosion.
 
FRANKEN... that is a good suggestion... I did clean it up pretty good, & normally I "season" the barrel with either Kroil, or Triflow with Teflon prior to "my" shooting, which I did on this rifle as well... but I just picked up some Hoppe's #9 Bench Rest copper remover... I should have my buddy put one of his target crowns on the barrel, & insure it doesn't have some deep residual copper fouling from "P Dogging" days gone by, before I resign it to the scrap barrel

however in all fairness, I have cleaned it a few times, & shot it several times last year, with it's old scope... it has never shot a group that's worth bragging about though...

... & how hot, & for how long, would a heavy 223 barrel get, from shooting 2,000 rounds 6- 8 hours a day, over just 4 days, in the hot South Dakota summer heat... & that is only one weeks worth of shooting... this was my FIL's main "doggie" gun, & he went many times a summer for probably over 10 years likely using this rifle pretty exclusively ( at least as far as I know ) this is why I'm not very optimistic... BTW, did I mention, my FIL was well known locally for his hot loads :) my 17 Fireball is a rebarreled 17 Remington, that he'd push till the bullet disintegrated, then he'd start backing down, till the bullet hit the target
 
I'd do as-suggested to the barrel, but would also try another scope/checking mounts/bases and bedding. The stock could have dried out and the action become loose.

To check bedding quickly, remove bedding screws, and lift the barrel a bit, then move the barrel side to side to see if the action is loos in the bedding. If it's not pretty tight, it might need pillar/action glass bedding.

It seems that the barrel has seen quite a bit of firing, and may have been overheated on varmint hunts. That's not a great prescription for longevity and it may be toast, but it's always best to have a good gunsmith check it out with a borescope.
 
There is no Remington Model 700 that qualifies as "vintage" in my book.
I would fix it up like I wanted to shoot it.

If you think it is a retirement investment, get a new barrel of the desired twist etc but the same profile so you don't have to open up the barrel channel. Then you can put the worn out factory barrel back on it when it gets to be a Valuable Collector's Item. Which I think is never, but if it makes you feel better, it won't be much trouble.
 
JIM... I used the "vintage" word, because this is one of the nicer "older" rifles... incredible wood, nicely polished bluing... the newer ones pale in beauty compared to some of the 70's-80's guns... I have enough of various guns, that I don't get into the "details" but this heavy barrel 223, & my 35 Whelen, have most incredible wood, compared to my other 3 Remington 700's that have plainer straight grained wood, & less attractive finish... all of which are older guns

I've looked at several of their new offerings, & never seen one yet, that matches the 223 or 35... I'd suspect these would carry a premium in value, after I'm gone, if rifle finishing continues on the trend it seems to be following :o
 
So do like I said.
Get a Remington Varmint profile barrel.
If you just want the looks, get a blue one.
If you expect collectability, save the one with the company name on it for your heirs to put back on it.
 
Get some "Wipe-out" foaming bore cleaner. It'll take care of anything that may be left over from other cleaners and contains no ammonia and will not hurt the barrel. I've inadvertently left it set for a week and came back to it. Patches come out bluer than Grandad's handkerchief!!!

I have a old 788 in .223 that has (believe it or don't) over 10,000 rounds through it. It's been shot much the same way as you are describing and after a good scrubbing, then a slight tweak of the pet load and it was off to the P dogs again.

RJ
 
recoil junky said:
Get some "Wipe-out" foaming bore cleaner. It'll take care of anything that may be left over from other cleaners and contains no ammonia and will not hurt the barrel. I've inadvertently left it set for a week and came back to it. Patches come out bluer than Grandad's handkerchief!!!

I have a old 788 in .223 that has (believe it or don't) over 10,000 rounds through it. It's been shot much the same way as you are describing and after a good scrubbing, then a slight tweak of the pet load and it was off to the P dogs again.

RJ
Click to expand...

Heck yes.

In my experience it is the most effortless way to clean copper from a barrel. I leave it sit for a few hours when I clean my barrels. When I run my patches I just run them wrapped around a nylon bore brush 'til they come out clean after a few passes and the bore looks great. I run a patch of Hoppe's after if I'm going to store the gun.
 
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