Mauser 98 Missfiring

B

bigbird34

New member
Hello Folks,I was given a Mauser 98(8x57mm) by a friend of mine several years ago....it was sportized a bit (basically a hand made stock),but we did a better job,new safety,new trigger and a new(well new to us) stock off of ebay ,I had a local smith do all the work....anyhow ,my oldest son has decided he needs to site it in for deer hunting (2 weeks) away (no pressure) the gun is missfiring quite a bit,the primers are not being struck hard enough ....soooooo I downloaded disassembly instructions from the web and took the bolt apart figuring it was dirty or something,well upon disassembly I can't really find anything wrong ,I polished up a few pieces on the firing pin,but no debris or crud???? I did measure the firing pin when decocked and it's right around .050" to .055" ...is this adaquate length or has the firing pin worn down from age ?????? I was told the military primers were very hard and would wear out the firing pin.....
I need to get my friend 8x57 dies and I'm gonna load up some blanks and see what happens ,but any ideas insights from you folks would sure be appreciated .....TIA BB34
 
First, what ammo are you using? Some of the old milsurp ammo is not only corrosive primed but given to misfires. (To some folks, a dead primer strike looks like a weak strike because the primer metal doesn't flow back around the firing pin as it does when the round fires.)

If the ammo is OK (best way to tell is to fire it in another rifle), then check the firing pin spring. Sometimes folks cut them down to make it easier to cock the rifle. A firing pin protrusion of .055" should be OK, though I like to see them a bit longer, say .060".

FWIW, I have never heard of a Mauser firing pin wearing down with age; they are sometimes chipped by improper disassembly and then polished down to round off the tip, but worn down? I don't think so.

Jim
 
8mm Mauser

Thank you for the reply,I am using reloaded ammo,that I did myself ....It"s most probably a firing pin issue,but I'll know more today when a just reprime some shells and give her a test ......primers are cheaper to shoot ,than running to the range 45 min.away for another test .....if 6 primed shells fire,then up to the range we go,if not a new firing pin will be ordered....the spring looks original ,and is full of tension,but I may replace it also ....Thanks again ,BB34
 
Mauser repaired ????

Ok,The bolt is back together and in the gun,I resized and primed up 12 shells,and all fired :D,Sooooooooo,I told eldest son to head to the range this weekend and give her another try,I'm going hunting and don't have the time to test the mauser .....My old buddy said the reloading dies might be setting the shoulder back to far creating more head space ???? but the shell is tapered ,so I can't see how this would affect the placement of the shell in the bore ??? Unless by pushing the shoulder back to much I actually shrink the diameter of the shell enough ,so that it does go in the bore to far ....I have adjusted the RCBS dies as instructed by the manual,maybe I need to back the die off one revolution and give that a try ???? ....Asssuming I don't full size far enough down the case length ,the bolt should close harder ,"correct"???
TIA for any and all comments,BB34
 
Missfire

I just had the same problem with a swede M-96 that had a sportized stock. Come to fine out the bolt was touching the stock enough to keep it from the normal 90 deg so the firing pin was not coming out enough as a result made it only barely hit the primer. Cut the stock out a bit and it works fine now so it may be worth looking at on your 98.
 
98 Missfire

Sir:
never, never GO BY THE DIRECTIONS WITH THE DIES!! aLSO, YOU ABSOLUTELY NEED YOUR RIFLE CHECKED FOR HEADSPACE.
98S. - THE GERMANS DIDN'T WORRY TOO MUCH ABOUT HEADSPACE BECAUSE THE ROUND WOULD GET DIRTY IN COMBAT!
If you're using military ammo, that is probably the problem (if you have a missfire wait 30 seconds before you open the bolt!!)
Generally, if your serial numbers match the rifle will have correct headspace (safe within limits).

Do not follow the die makers directions.
Screw the sizing die town until with the ram at TDC, it just touches and then back off 1/2 turn. - Size a case - try it in your rifle - if it closes you have a problem - if it doesn't proceed and keep screwing the sizer down minutely till case will close with some feel on bolt handle as it closes - LEAVE IT THERE!
Be sure your striker mechanism is screwed in until it stops and locks!
DO NOT, repeat DO NOT fire anyones reloads! NO ONES! .050 pin protrusion is OK.
It is very unusual for a 98 to exibit this problem! It needs expert investigation. Hope this helps you.
If you follow the die makers instructions you will have incipient case head separation after about 3 to 5 reloads - you will be oversizing your case.
I very seriously doubt there is much wrong with your rifle unless something seriously wrong such as massive set-back - Germans allowed tolerance in the 98s - but as I said, if you find one with matching numbers (bolt and action) it'll be ok!
Harry B.
 
Headspace check

Is always a good idea with old rifles. However, I don't see how excessive (case too small) headspace would give misfires, as the Mauser extractor holds the case head against the bolt, and should hold it in place well enough to fire, even is the case is undersized. Firing a grossly undersized case is a bad thing, but a Mauser 98 can let you do it.

All the other ideas are plausible, and should be checked. If the bolt is fully shut, the pin long enough, the spring strong enough, then something is dragging on the striker, slowing it down. Or you have some bad ammo.

Have the gun checked over by a professional.
 
If the case is not supported on the shoulder as it should be, but is held only by the extractor, the firing pin can push the case forward to the extent allowed by the extractor. This can absorb firing pin energy that is needed to fire the primer or, if firing pin protrusion is on the short side, can actually push the case forward to the extent of the firing pin protrusion without enough left to dent the primer.

Either way, yes a short case or excess headspace can cause misfires.

Jim
 
Missfire
I just had the same problem with a swede M-96 that had a sportized stock. Come to fine out the bolt was touching the stock enough to keep it from the normal 90 deg so the firing pin was not coming out enough as a result made it only barely hit the primer. Cut the stock out a bit and it works fine now so it may be worth looking at on your 98.
Click to expand...

I have seen this happen-and you said that you changed the stock. I would check if that is the problem.

Cheers
 
All bolt rifles are designed so they won't fire unless the bolt is fully closed and locked. Anything (stock, dirt) that prevents the bolt from locking down fully will let the cocking piece drop onto the side of the cocking cam and not reach the primer.

It is something to check if the bolt has been bent down, new handle welded on, or stock work has been done, but is usually pretty obvious.

Jim
 
THE GERMANS DIDN'T WORRY TOO MUCH ABOUT HEADSPACE BECAUSE THE ROUND WOULD GET DIRTY IN COMBAT!
Click to expand...

That's interesting! The German guns have Waffenamtabnahmestempel and the guys that checked the guns were very anal about even the smallest piece. All guns proofed in Germany had to be proof fired and the chamber checked.
 
After reading Jim's post, I rethought it, and...

Decided you are entirely correct, and I was not taking into account the distance the case might move forward before being stopped by the extractor. I am now of the opinion that an undersize case may fire, or may not, depending on the amount of movement before being stopped by the extractor.

I neglected to take into account that even a tiny bit of play could cushion the firning pin blow enough to allow misfires. I should have remembered better, as this was something I once knew. Thanks for pointing it out sir.

My bad. :o
 
Just for info. In spite of the German insistence on numbering everything, the Mauser production machinery was pretty good. A friend and I once had at hand 13 or 14 Mauser 98 rifles, from six different countries. We also had a set of headspace gauges and some time. So we started swapping bolts. I don't know how many different combinations we tried before we got tired, but none we tried (or were able to try) failed the field gauge and just about all were OK with both the Go and No-Go.

I thought that was pretty impressive and quit worrying overly much about Mausers being "in spec."

Jim
 
Most machinery to produce K98 Mauser rifles had come from Germany as reparations after WWI, FN received the Mauser Werke machines and Czechoslovakia got Loewe's equipment and over 100,000 actions.
 
98

Sirs:
Yes, I agree their machinery was good - yes, I agree that swapped bolts from guns made all over the world will work, yes I agree that they all probably are safe, but I have found some Mausers with headspace that were far, far from my standards for correct headspace. Even A-Square recommends to turn the bbl. back a few thousandths before sporterizing the 98. and guaging it. To my standards I want the bolt to just wiggle down with the go guage!
I agree with you all that virtually all Mausers will fire with any 8X57JS ammo safely but I'm talking about correct headspace and the facts I've learned of 50 years of fooling with them.
Mausers with "set-back" cannot have the correct headspace! I've found dozens with set-back! Will they fire and not blow-up, certainly!
I had a Sako AII in 22-50, very accurate - it would also almost close on the no-go guage - not satisfactory for my taste - but maybe I'm just an old coger too hard to please.:) Headspace in a rifle isn't a matter of "will it shoot and not blow-up, it's a matter of being right!
Harry B.
 
remember

Sirs:
8X57JS loaded in this country is at probably 35,000 CUP. while Turkish and German ammo is loaded to close to 50,000 CUP.

I cannot stress to strongly that headspace must be correct as it is (can be) a matter of life and death! Yes, most rifles will fire a round that has atrocious headspace but that's just one round, and some rounds are steel cases!
It is a known fact that military weapons headspace practice is to allow dirty ammo to load and fire - I wouldn,t want a tightly chambered and headspaced weapon in conbat - suicide!
We must realize that "handloading" practice in our society is pretty sloppy - little thought is given to the finer points. If we will buy one manual (A-Square Shooters Manual - Any Shot You Want) we wouldn't be so uneducated - yea! I was uneducated and I did some stupid things before I got educated but it's no excuse. We shouldn't be satisfied with "what will work" but only with, "what's right." And I don't mean any offense to anyone on the Forum at all - I just feel strongly about this!
Harry B.:D
 
98

Sirs:
In PrezGrens, post my statement in my initial post supports Jims' statement, not cobtradicts it, I said, if your numbers match it's probably within safe limits and that's what Jim's saying and I agree with him basically.
Here on the Forum we're interested in giving good info, not to pic each others posts to pieces. I don't think any of us are on much of an ego trip but it bothers me to see anyones post misrepresented.
Jim and I agree on Mausers - yea they're all pretty safe, but we're not interested in that - we're interested in giving you the best info. I'm sorry this has affected me so but I guess I'm just thin skinned about some things.
I apologize Harry B.:D
 
Mauser not firing problems...

Good advice has already been given about the bolt not being able to set in at the proper 90 degrees, the stock is usually the culprit but if the bolt was bent for a scope then the receiver needs to be notched, and if the notch isn't cut properly it too can prevent the bolt from setting properly.

Also weak springs are common on old Mausers, a Wolff spring is a cheap and worthwhile upgrade.

Also your reloads might be the culprit, you could possibly be seating the primers too deep or you have a bad batch of primers. I know I've had some bad primers before.

All told I hope this helps.

Jimro
 
In PrezGrens...
Click to expand...

Harry,

It is PzGren, chosen after the unit I served in, the 173. Panzergrenadierbatallion. I have read the technical manuals in the Bundeswehr and, having lived in Germany almost half my life, can assure you that there was and still is no slack when it comes to proper weapons maintenance.

As time went by, and a lot of time passed since the Mausers had been checked, the headspace could change.

When I still lived in Germany I wanted to buy a Swedish M38 and the dealer told me to wait a while because all the imports had to be proof fired and the ones that had passed had been sold. The ones that did not pass had the barrel set back and the chamber recut to proper specs before they were proofed and up for sale. A qualified gun smith performed the work. To work as an independent gun smith the three year associate degree is not sufficient, a Master's degree is required. I am mentioning this to show how much attention to detail and doing things right is given in Germany.

..and it's all written down in a regulation and followed, if necessarily at the cost of life:D
 
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