My friend (Designated collector) owns 8 handguns and 2 assault pistols (Tec 9 and Tec 22). Due to some trouble with the law, he is on probation and probation officer says he cant have the firearms while on probation. My friend will transfer the handguns to me (also a designated collector) but in the state of Maryland, the Tec 9 and Tec 22 can not be transferred to me. Can the Maryland state police store the Tec 9 and Tec 22 for my friend until the probation is up? Friend NOT a convicted felon just on probation.
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Maryland state police
- Thread starter gunuser
- Start date
Try the folks at: www.mdshooters.com
If the guy is on paper but does NOT have a felony conviction, they do not have to be transferred to another person. In this case, and some pains should be taken to insure there was no plea of any sort to a felony, the directive to not be in possession of, or have access to firearms is a condition of supervision and not a law. He can have his probation revoked and do his time for violating the condition, but can not be prosecuted for a new crime for having the guns if that makes sense. He would not be a felon in possession. Your friend needs to speak to his Officer and get some clarification, but most likely he can have them stored off premises until his supervision runs it's course.
On the other hand, there may be some draconian state law in Maryland. What is he on paper for anyway?
On the other hand, there may be some draconian state law in Maryland. What is he on paper for anyway?
Friends probation officer is being a "A-hole" on the matter. Sure, i told friend to let me store all firearms at my house, but probation officer doesnt "trust" friend. ***? After probation is up at end of year, my friend can take custody of firearms again. Since the Tec 9 and Tec 22 are considered assault pistols, the original owner can legally possess them. They are now banned in the state and maryland and cannot be sold or transferred to a Maryland resident. Just looking for a lawfull way to store the guns till probation is completed.
Aguila Blanca
Staff
A couple of years ago I went to the shooting range (indoor) one day and found a big gun safe on the stair landing just inside the door. Turns out another customer was getting a divorce and his wife slapped a protective order on him, so he wasn't allowed to possess firearms. The guy lived in the same town as the range, which is a small town and the local PD really didn't want to be responsible for a safe full of (some very valuable) firearms. The range shop has a licensed FFL, so everyone agreed that the entire safe would simply be removed to the shop and stay there until the order was lifted.
No transfers involved. The guns were not in the guy's possession. However, it may have helped that the PD trusted the range owner. They do some of their training there and they buy guns and some ammo there, so they were willing to trust that the owner wouldn't let the guy walk in and "borrow" one of his guns.
No transfers involved. The guns were not in the guy's possession. However, it may have helped that the PD trusted the range owner. They do some of their training there and they buy guns and some ammo there, so they were willing to trust that the owner wouldn't let the guy walk in and "borrow" one of his guns.
The PO does not get to decide if the person on supervision's friend has guns, only the person on supervision. The PO has no authority over the other person and their ability to possess firearms. It does not matter if the PO likes them or not, or trusts them or not. A call to the PO's supervisor might be in order.
Again, what crime was the conviction for? Suspended sentence? Deferred prosecution? Some diversion program? Suspended imposition of sentence? This information could be of some value to the discussion, and can easily be given without divulging anyone's name or location.
Again, what crime was the conviction for? Suspended sentence? Deferred prosecution? Some diversion program? Suspended imposition of sentence? This information could be of some value to the discussion, and can easily be given without divulging anyone's name or location.
Aguila Blanca
Staff
Are you ... and your friend ... really clear about the nature of his trial and punishment? I am not a lawyer, but I had some in the family and I know a little after almost seven decades of using up oxygen on this planet. A judge can't impose ANYTHING ... not community service, nor probation ... unless the person on trial has been convicted. It sounds like your friend WAS convicted, but the judge gave him a break by sentencing him to community service and probation rather than hard time. And those types of assaults are (I assume for your state) felony offenses. So it appears that your friend IS now a convicted felon.gunuser said:Friend charged with 1st and 2nd degree assault with a knife. He went to court, Judge gave him community service and anger management. NO conviction. Probation for a year. He lucked out considering the jail time he would have done if he was convicted.
But the legal trigger for becoming a prohibited person is not whether or not you spend more than a year in prison, the legal provision is whether or not the potential sentence for the crime(s) of which you are convicted carries a term of more than one year.
I think your friend needs to have a chat with his lawyer to figure out exactly what his status is. I think he is now a convicted felon and permanently prohibited from possessing firearms. Which means he can't ever even touch one again.
Is it possible that his sentence (again, I believe he HAS been convicted, or the judge could not impose any punishment on him) is some sort of "first offender" deal, under which if he keeps his nose clean for the duration of the probation the charges (and the conviction) will be expunged? If that's the case, he IS a convicted felon today and will be until he completes the probation period and goes back to court to have the conviction expunged. Which means he cannot possess firearms until that takes place.
Schrader's Dilemma
This is Maryland. Misdemeanors have an indeterminate 2 to 3 year sentencing limit.
So (benefit of the doubt, here), if your friend plead down to misdemeanor charges, if this is a withheld judgment, if after successful completion of the probation period and the court expunges (not seals) the record and restores all rights... Then and only then will your friend be able to possess firearms.
Your friend needs to make sure his attorney covers all these bases. Without an attorney, I doubt your friend can cover all those "ifs" and "ands."
This is Maryland. Misdemeanors have an indeterminate 2 to 3 year sentencing limit.
So (benefit of the doubt, here), if your friend plead down to misdemeanor charges, if this is a withheld judgment, if after successful completion of the probation period and the court expunges (not seals) the record and restores all rights... Then and only then will your friend be able to possess firearms.
Your friend needs to make sure his attorney covers all these bases. Without an attorney, I doubt your friend can cover all those "ifs" and "ands."
A judge most certainly can impose probation to include community service, restitution etc. without a conviction. It can be done with an agreement from the Prosecuting Attorney's office for Deferred Prosecution for one, in that case they agree to defer the prosecution of the case for a set period and the offender agrees to certain terms. If he successfully completes those terms then prosecution is dropped. It goes no further. No conviction.
A second possibility is what is referred to commonly as an SIS, Suspended Imposition of Sentence. In this case the offender does enter a plea of guilt, the Court does NOT impose a sentence, there is NO conviction. This is often done in non-violent cases such as child support. Probation with terms follows and the offender can complete probation with, technically, no conviction. This one can be a bit tricky because there was a plea entered, just no conviction. It can count as a conviction for sex offender registries and some firearms laws. Depends upon the jurisdiction.
The equivalent of deferred prosecution in some states is to have a conviction, do probation, and then go back to court where the Judge expunges the case. In this instance there is a conviction during the period of probation, and not after, assuming successful completion of the term of probation.
I am sure there are a few more possibilities, but these are the basic ones any others would follow.
Considering what your friend is on probation for the PO is absolutely correct in assuring and insisting he has no access to weapons. In my opinion the PO is not correct in attempting to control who else has those weapons.
In your friend's case there is for sure a written out agreement signed by all parties to include the judge. Your friend for sure has a copy of that agreement. You may want to take a look at it if he permits it.
A second possibility is what is referred to commonly as an SIS, Suspended Imposition of Sentence. In this case the offender does enter a plea of guilt, the Court does NOT impose a sentence, there is NO conviction. This is often done in non-violent cases such as child support. Probation with terms follows and the offender can complete probation with, technically, no conviction. This one can be a bit tricky because there was a plea entered, just no conviction. It can count as a conviction for sex offender registries and some firearms laws. Depends upon the jurisdiction.
The equivalent of deferred prosecution in some states is to have a conviction, do probation, and then go back to court where the Judge expunges the case. In this instance there is a conviction during the period of probation, and not after, assuming successful completion of the term of probation.
I am sure there are a few more possibilities, but these are the basic ones any others would follow.
Considering what your friend is on probation for the PO is absolutely correct in assuring and insisting he has no access to weapons. In my opinion the PO is not correct in attempting to control who else has those weapons.
In your friend's case there is for sure a written out agreement signed by all parties to include the judge. Your friend for sure has a copy of that agreement. You may want to take a look at it if he permits it.
Frank Ettin
Administrator
[1] To get back to the OP's original question:
My guess is that they wouldn't be particularly interested in storing peoples' weapons for them, but I have no way of knowing for sure.
[2] As to the status of the OP's friend's gun rights, in general Aguila Blanca is correct that probabtion and community service are sentences imposed when one is convicted of a crime. A conviction can be as a result of a trial, but it can also be a result of a plea.
And Al Norris is correct that some jurisdictions have a variety of procedures that can muddy things up -- like a withheld judgment. These are usually part of a plea deal. In effect those sorts of arrangements will turn into a conviction if the defendant doesn't live up to his part of the bargain, but if he does, things can get unwound in one way or another. But what the story really is for the OP's friend will take a qualified lawyer to work out.
That's really going to be up to the Maryland State Police. I doubt that any or us are going to be an authoritative source for information on the policies of the Maryland State Police.gunuser said:Can the Maryland state police store the Tec 9 and Tec 22 for my friend until the probation is up?
My guess is that they wouldn't be particularly interested in storing peoples' weapons for them, but I have no way of knowing for sure.
[2] As to the status of the OP's friend's gun rights, in general Aguila Blanca is correct that probabtion and community service are sentences imposed when one is convicted of a crime. A conviction can be as a result of a trial, but it can also be a result of a plea.
And Al Norris is correct that some jurisdictions have a variety of procedures that can muddy things up -- like a withheld judgment. These are usually part of a plea deal. In effect those sorts of arrangements will turn into a conviction if the defendant doesn't live up to his part of the bargain, but if he does, things can get unwound in one way or another. But what the story really is for the OP's friend will take a qualified lawyer to work out.
Conn. Trooper
New member
Our court orders specifically state that weapons must be surrendered to your local police agency, the state police, or they can be transferred to a person that can legally possess them. Even a dealer can take possession of them, but we will store them for somebody. Down side is, they get put on a shelf in the evidence locker and ignored. They don't get abused, but nobody checks them for rust, or wipes them down with silicone, they just hang out in the basement of the troop.
NJgunowner
New member
You hand the state of Marylanders a tec 9 you'll never see it again. They'll melt it into paper clips before the week is out.
Quite honestly, it is not the responsibility of the MD State Police to store your friend's firearms.
Regardless of anything else, he committed a crime and part of his punishment for said crime is (for whatever reason) apparently being prohibited from possessing firearms at this time.
Basically, it's not MSP's job to store them.
Your friend could try to sell them online on gunbroker or something similar. That'd probably be the easiest solution, he'd just have to transfer them to a dealer for the time being and have them shipped from said dealer to the buyer.
Regardless of anything else, he committed a crime and part of his punishment for said crime is (for whatever reason) apparently being prohibited from possessing firearms at this time.
Basically, it's not MSP's job to store them.
Your friend could try to sell them online on gunbroker or something similar. That'd probably be the easiest solution, he'd just have to transfer them to a dealer for the time being and have them shipped from said dealer to the buyer.
Sorry, but you have your adjectives confused here. If there's an "a-hole" in the mix, it's your buddy for breaking the law and getting you stuck in the middle of it. Check your assumptions, pal.Friends probation officer is being a "A-hole" on the matter. Sure, i told friend to let me store all firearms at my house, but probation officer doesnt "trust" friend. ***?
jhenry said:A judge most certainly can impose probation to include community service, restitution etc. without a conviction. It can be done with an agreement from the Prosecuting Attorney's office for Deferred Prosecution for one, in that case they agree to defer the prosecution of the case for a set period and the offender agrees to certain terms. If he successfully completes those terms then prosecution is dropped. It goes no further. No conviction.
I know this is so from first-hand experience (no, I didn't knife anyone, just a little friendly civil disobedience). In my case, it was "First Time Offender" diversion; in an agreement between the US Attorney's office and my attorney, I signed an acknowledgement that the material facts alleged were true (i.e., yeah, I done it), did 40-hours community service, and the charge was dismissed.
As my lawyer wryly noted on our way out of Court, "Now, Mr. James, you are, of course, aware there is no 'Second Time Offender' program?"