Marlin 336 problem help

J

JJ45

New member
Hello, I have two of these made in the 60s. One is a pistol gripped RC and has an old Redfield 4X32 with a post reticle. It is really accurate and holds it's zero quite well.

The other is a straight stocked "Texan" this is the problem rifle and is quite frustrating...I mounted XS ghost ring sights which I like a lot....I reload for both rifles and the RC really likes Sierra 170 flat points and Varget but will shoot most anything well.

I can't get the Texan to shoot with anything....lately I bought a couple boxes of Remington 170 Core Lokts just to see but still no dice. The sights are tight and the stock is not loose, the muzzle crown looks okay, etc. It won't hold zero and I get about 5" or worse groups at 100 yards, and this for only 3 shots! Not what these old Marlins are capable of.

Any suggestions would be helpful
 
What prior experience do you have with that rifle? Was it known to do better in some other configuration? Or is this all the experience you have with it?


Those XS Ghost rings are not known for their precision. They're intended for quick shots at close range.
Big aperture + huge front post = ballpark accuracy

Check to make sure the screws are not bottomed out in their holes for the front sight. If they're bottomed out, two things happen: 1. The sight can move. 2. The bore can be constricted and negatively impact accuracy.
 
Ok, "won't hold a zero" is a totally different problem than just grouping. That indicates a problem with the sights.
 
FrankenMauser said:
What prior experience do you have with that rifle? Was it known to do better in some other configuration? Or is this all the experience you have with it?


Those XS Ghost rings are not known for their precision. They're intended for quick shots at close range.
Big aperture + huge front post = ballpark accuracy

Check to make sure the screws are not bottomed out in their holes for the front sight. If they're bottomed out, two things happen: 1. The sight can move. 2. The bore can be constricted and negatively impact accuracy.
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Nothing wrong with the sights as I already said....I never heard of a constricted bore caused by bottomed out front sight screws but I am game for the education. If the screws were bottomed out the sight would be loose as you pointed out. IIRC the XS front sight base only has one screw and a post (no threads) to fit into the other screw hole just for stability.

I have a peep sight with an aperture the same size as this one on a custom 1917 30-06 and can usually get sub two inch groups for 3 shots at 100 yards. But it has a 4"longer sight radius, a bit better trigger and is probably an inherently more accurate rifle. I have had pretty good accuracy from "ghost ring" apertures even though the purpose is quick acquisition.

What you said about how much do I know about the rifle hit home. I bought it used some years ago and don't know the history. Sometimes these weapons, that can't be scrubbed from the breech without a field strip, can be abused with a steel cleaning rod, etc. without getting into it I'm sure you know what I mean.

As we speak I am running patches of copper remover with an Otis and letting it set. Getting a whole lot of really dark blue out of the bore....I'll use a brush later, etc and see how it goes but I ain't confident it has that much to do with it. I hope I'm wrong.
 
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Was wrong about the front sight having only one screw, it's the rear sight that has just one threaded screw and a post. Just realized this.
 
I really appreciate you guys advice. Funny thing Frankenmauser got me thinking. I hate to admit it but I think the problem is me. When I first got the rifle it was no tack driver but not as it is now...but I noticed my eyesight is not anywhere what it used to be.

Compound that by being right handed and left eyed. I actually think I'm on purpose forgetting how to properly use a peep and am over thinking it by trying to "line up" the peep instead of looking through the peep and focusing on the front sight. Got to try not to over think it to compensate for failing eyesight.

Only more shooting will confirm but I'm going to clean the bore well first.
 
JJ45 said:
I really appreciate you guys advice. Funny thing Frankenmauser got me thinking. I hate to admit it but I think the problem is me. When I first got the rifle it was no tack driver but not as it is now...but I noticed my eyesight is not anywhere what it used to be.

Compound that by being right handed and left eyed. I actually think I'm on purpose forgetting how to properly use a peep and am over thinking it by trying to "line up" the peep instead of looking through the peep and focusing on the front sight. Got to try not to over think it to compensate for failing eyesight.

Only more shooting will confirm but I'm going to clean the bore well first.
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I suggest that the first thing you do is to put a scope on that rifle and test your ammo from the bench with sandbags. After you find what it likes to shoot, you can remove the scope and put the ghost ring back on it.
 
How good can you shoot ghost ring sights?
I am assuming you are experienced with them.
I know some good shooters who shoot 1/2 inch at 100 with their scoped ar15s and shoot 5" at 100 with their ghost ring ar15s. I don't shoot ghost ring. I hate them. I shoot competition peep sights, but not ghost ring. To me, a ghost ring is a shotgun sight.
 
Like Doyle says, "It won't hold zero" indicates an issue with the sights. How many screws there are isn't an issue.
However, if you're not reloading, you must try a box of as many brands and bullet weights as you can to find the ammo that particular rifler shoots best.
Since you are reloading, you need to work up a load for the Texan. No 2 rifles will shoot the same ammo the same way.
"...put a scope on that rifle..." That won't make a rifle that doesn't shoot well with irons do so.
 
As we speak I am running patches of copper remover with an Otis and letting it set. Getting a whole lot of really dark blue out of the bore....I'll use a brush later, etc and see how it goes but I ain't confident it has that much to do with it. I hope I'm wrong.
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I think it has a lot to do with it. Copper fouled bores do not shoot well. You probably already know how to remove the lever then the bolt so it can be cleaned from the breech. If you can find it try some Barnes CR-10 in the bore. Its the best copper remover I have ever used.

And the suggestion to mount a scope and see how it shoots is a good idea. If your eyesight is bad you can't expect to get great groups. You can only shoot as well as you can see.
 
ratshooter said:
I think it has a lot to do with it. Copper fouled bores do not shoot well. You probably already know how to remove the lever then the bolt so it can be cleaned from the breech. If you can find it try some Barnes CR-10 in the bore. Its the best copper remover I have ever used.

And the suggestion to mount a scope and see how it shoots is a good idea. If your eyesight is bad you can't expect to get great groups. You can only shoot as well as you can see.
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I used Bore Tech Copper remover. I got enough copper out her that could make a buck worth of pennies :) My eyesight is not that bad corrected. I shoot other peep sighted rifles pretty well, especially the Garand Just trying to cover all the excuses for maybe just poor shooting.

Scoping her (she's a she Texan :) is a good idea just to see. If my only deer rifle I probably would go through the rigamarole of removing the rear sight, mounting, dismounting, etc. I like to have at least one deer carbine without a scope. You know what I mean.

By the way, after a good scrub, I shot her some. Shot Remington 170 Core-Lokts and my reloads using Sierra 150 flat points and she shot considerably better...

The change in POI, I thinks is because of the changes in humidity here in Western Pa. It can be 90 and 90% humidity in the Summer and as low as minus zero and dry out in Winter. This rifle seems to be effected worse than normal, if that's really the cause.

Thanks a million. All the replies gave me pause for thought. Good advice as usual.
 
Way back when, Dad and I had 336’s. We never shot for groups back then, but they shot pretty well, and we killed a lot of deer over the years. Then one year I went back home to help Dad sight in the various rifles and his 336 barrel was ‘done’. Washtub sized groups. It was an old rifle and he wasn’t into cleaning it. My assumption, then and now, was that the relatively shallow micro-groove rifling was enough gone to make accuracy impossible. He rebarreled it.

The OP’s barrel, like Dad’s, could be ‘gone’. But scope it first before spending serious money.
 
one thing peep sights, including ghost rings, need for accuracy is consistently looking through them the same way.

.32 Special barrels are known for "wearing out" but .30-30s aren't. clean it thoroughly, and shoot some with a scope or with the semi buckhorn rear leaf and see what kind of results you get, for comparision.

or have someone else shoot it the way it is, and see what they can to, as well.

Good Luck
 
As per above:

1) have someone else you know can shoot have a go with it and see what happens

2) try slapping a scope on it and see if that improves things

I have a 1967 "Texan". Love that rifle. It's killed a fair few deer and even more hogs. Aperture sights are harder than people think. The front sight has to appear in exactly the same way in the rear aperture every time for any consistency. I shoot a Williams FP on the Texan just fine. Tried the same sights on a Marlin 1894 and results were much worse than buck horns! Wasn't the sights...
 
Good aperture sights will turn a 75-yard-open-sight 30-30 into an honest 150-yard rifle that's quicker to the shot, not having to deliberate for costly seconds over an uncertain sight picture as the antler-crowned target wanders off into the brush. If all you have ever known is a scoped rifle, then I guess there could be a learning curve when switching to aperture sights..... On the other hand, if you are only accustomed to open sights, changing to an aperture sight can be a huge leap forward in performance with less effort than open sights.
 
Texan

My first thought was to do a really good cleaning/copper defunk on the carbine. The Texan is an older rifle, and who knows how much it was shot and not cleaned, before you got it. If I got the old carbine to shoot under 3 MOA with a peep, I'd think I'd be satisfied

I USED to shoot ghost rings, but older eyes have made me reduce the size of the aperture on about all my peep sighted rifles. This was especially true on short barreled, short sight radius carbines like an M4 or a 16-18" lever carbine. A smaller aperture may clean up your sight picture a bit and add to precision, it did for me, for a while anyhow. The XS people should sell you one for less than the price of a whole rear sight.

Having someone else shoot some groups, and or scoping the rifle and shooting (more trouble) are both good ideas as well to see if it's the carbine or you.
 
bamaranger said:
My first thought was to do a really good cleaning/copper defunk on the carbine. The Texan is an older rifle, and who knows how much it was shot and not cleaned, before you got it. If I got the old carbine to shoot under 3 MOA with a peep, I'd think I'd be satisfied

I USED to shoot ghost rings, but older eyes have made me reduce the size of the aperture on about all my peep sighted rifles. This was especially true on short barreled, short sight radius carbines like an M4 or a 16-18" lever carbine. A smaller aperture may clean up your sight picture a bit and add to precision, it did for me, for a while anyhow. The XS people should sell you one for less than the price of a whole rear sight.

Having someone else shoot some groups, and or scoping the rifle and shooting (more trouble) are both good ideas as well to see if it's the carbine or you.
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A bit off topic but since we're talking peep sights I think the big aperture concept of the "ghost ring" is overrated and not necessary for it's intended purpose of short range, fast acquisition Although some say that very little precision is sacrificed by using a large diameter peep, target shooters (Olympic) would argue otherwise.

IMO, the best general use peep sights are found on the M1 Garand which would include the O3A3, etc. The apertures on these rifles are relatively small...the rear peep still "disappears" when the sight is used correctly and allows quick acquisition but is also very precise and enables target grade accuracy from these weapons....

Although somewhat cumbersome for the deer woods, just considering the sights on the M1, I think it would be just as quick and effective as any ghost ring for short range deer, bear, etc.
 
First thing I do with a rifle is mount a scope and shoot it for group. I don't hunt any levers with scopes. Most of my levers, pumps and a couple old Rem autos have reciever sights or factory irons. Most of my reciver sight are Lyman 66s, a very fine sight for target or hunting.
 
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