Marlin 1895SS (Super Sport) .45-70 GOVT.
- Thread starter THERAVEN
- Start date
Well Marlin never made a "Super Sport", SS stands for Sport rifle with crossbolt Safety (SS). The Marlin is one of the most versatile rifles in .45-70 as it can handle powder puff loads to OMG! If you can find one reasonably priced and pre-Remington Marlin prefered, I'd say why not? They're great rifles and well built, and while I've only shot a Guide Gun Marlin lever .45-70 it was fun. However, the .45-70 just isn't a cartridge I'm going invest in for the type of shooting I enjoy.
I thought 1895 SS was the Stainless Steel version. They have been made in numerous configurations over the years. There are some manufactured by Marlin, Remington, and Ruger so that confuses things even more. I can't keep up with all of the nomenclature anymore.
I've owed 3 different 1895's going back to 1976. Sold the last one about a dozen years ago.
IMO 45-70 is overrated. Introduced in 1873 it a short, unsuccessful career as a military round. By the 1890's they were pretty much dead. When the 30-30 was introduced, it was considered a MUCH more powerful cartridge, and with 1800's loadings is.
It was never a popular bison cartridge. Partly because it wasn't powerful enough, but mostly because most of the bison were already gone before it was introduced.
45-70 was all but dead from the 1890's to 1972 when Marlin brought them back. Sales were slow for a while, but I see a lot of interest in the last 20 years or so. I'd not be surprised if 45-70 hasn't killed more game in the 21st century than the 19th and 20th centuries combined.
The milder loadings are comfortable to shoot and suitable for deer and black bear. You get pretty much the same performance as a 45-caliber muzzle loader which is the smallest legal option for deer in most places.
The newer loadings will make it a legit moose or elk cartridge. I would want something more powerful for big bear. But recoil from those loads, in a Marlin lever gun, are brutal. If I'm getting hit that hard with recoil, I'd just go with a 375 and get less recoil, and more performance.
If you handload 45-70 shows 3 levels of power. The 1st level is suitable for any rifle. Marlin lever guns will handle the lower, and mid-level loads. The mid-level loads will knock the snot out of you, but are no more effective on game than 30-06 or similar cartridges.
Only SOME bolt guns, and SOME single shots such as the Ruger #1 will take the highest-level loads. Lots of folks think they are getting close to 458 WM performance when they get a 45-70. Even the hottest 45-70 loads are well behind 458. And those suitable for a lever gun aren't even close.
My advice: If you want a classic lever rifle buy an original Marlin or Winchester in 30-30. If you want to shoot bigger game with a more powerful rifle get a bolt gun.
I've owed 3 different 1895's going back to 1976. Sold the last one about a dozen years ago.
IMO 45-70 is overrated. Introduced in 1873 it a short, unsuccessful career as a military round. By the 1890's they were pretty much dead. When the 30-30 was introduced, it was considered a MUCH more powerful cartridge, and with 1800's loadings is.
It was never a popular bison cartridge. Partly because it wasn't powerful enough, but mostly because most of the bison were already gone before it was introduced.
45-70 was all but dead from the 1890's to 1972 when Marlin brought them back. Sales were slow for a while, but I see a lot of interest in the last 20 years or so. I'd not be surprised if 45-70 hasn't killed more game in the 21st century than the 19th and 20th centuries combined.
The milder loadings are comfortable to shoot and suitable for deer and black bear. You get pretty much the same performance as a 45-caliber muzzle loader which is the smallest legal option for deer in most places.
The newer loadings will make it a legit moose or elk cartridge. I would want something more powerful for big bear. But recoil from those loads, in a Marlin lever gun, are brutal. If I'm getting hit that hard with recoil, I'd just go with a 375 and get less recoil, and more performance.
If you handload 45-70 shows 3 levels of power. The 1st level is suitable for any rifle. Marlin lever guns will handle the lower, and mid-level loads. The mid-level loads will knock the snot out of you, but are no more effective on game than 30-06 or similar cartridges.
Only SOME bolt guns, and SOME single shots such as the Ruger #1 will take the highest-level loads. Lots of folks think they are getting close to 458 WM performance when they get a 45-70. Even the hottest 45-70 loads are well behind 458. And those suitable for a lever gun aren't even close.
My advice: If you want a classic lever rifle buy an original Marlin or Winchester in 30-30. If you want to shoot bigger game with a more powerful rifle get a bolt gun.
Post #4 by jmr40 is a well thought out answer.
If you just want a good Deer lever action, .30-30, .35Rem or the new .360 Buckhammer.
If you just have to have a .45-70, the Henry is probably a better budget option as the old JMs are expensive, the Remlins are not getting a thumbs up, and the new (and arguably the best) are going to be more than a Henry as well.
If you just want a good Deer lever action, .30-30, .35Rem or the new .360 Buckhammer.
If you just have to have a .45-70, the Henry is probably a better budget option as the old JMs are expensive, the Remlins are not getting a thumbs up, and the new (and arguably the best) are going to be more than a Henry as well.
Straitshot
New member
I have 4 lever rifles in 45-70 and 3 sinle shot sharps rifles. It is one of my faorite cartridges to shoot but I am nostalgic when it comes to the old west.
My two newest lever rifles are the new Ruger made Marlins, the SBL and the Trapper, and I love shooting them even though they aren't old west style rifles. Since I don't live in bear country I don't need the hot loads so I keep my rounds in the light to medium range. I just like lever rifles. They are a hoot to shoot!
I can't really compare them to other rifles because I rarely shoot anything else as I have lever rifles in 14 different calibers.
I would get one simply because they are fun!
My two newest lever rifles are the new Ruger made Marlins, the SBL and the Trapper, and I love shooting them even though they aren't old west style rifles. Since I don't live in bear country I don't need the hot loads so I keep my rounds in the light to medium range. I just like lever rifles. They are a hoot to shoot!
I can't really compare them to other rifles because I rarely shoot anything else as I have lever rifles in 14 different calibers.
I would get one simply because they are fun!
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If you conder it overrated, that's your opinion, I however disagree.
A short, unsuccessful career as a military round? What are your standards for short? And "unsuccessful"??
Introduced in 1873, and officially replaced as the first line round in 1892, and continued in service as a secondary round for another decade or so, I wouldn't call that "short.
For comparison, look at the official service life of the other military rounds, AND keep in mind that military service life is NOT directly based on the effectiveness of the cartridge, but ALSO on the rifles it is used in, and also technology, political, and economic considerations.
The .30-40 Krag replaced the .45-70 in 1892. The .30-40 Krag was replaced my the .30-03 in 1903. That's 11 years, compared to the .45-70's 19. The .30-03 became the .30-06 in just THREE years. The .30-06 was "officially" replaced by the 7.62mm NATO after about a 50 year run, and the 7.62 NATO was replaced by the 5.56mm as the primary rifle round, after about half a dozen years. So, looking at that, how does the approx 20 year primary service life of the .45-70 equal a "short career"???
The .30-30 is not, and never was a MUCH more powerful round. It has slightly more energy on paper, a couple hundred ft/lbs or so, (depending on which loads you compare) but what it was, was a round that shot flatter, recoiled less, and came in repeaters that weighed less, delivered as much as the .45-70 or a bit more, and oh, yeah, was smokeless powder. Those factors together are what I think accounted for the .30-30's popularity.
The .45-70 wasn't the most popular buffalo cartridge for the market hunters, as they began before the .45-70 was introduced. But the commercial buffalo hunting didn't end until the mid 1880s, and by 1875 Sharps, Remington, Winchester were all producing sporting rifles in .45-70, and from about 1876 on, the most common Sharps chambering was .45-70.
The .45-70 is absolutely powerful enough for bison, in its original black powder configuration. Yes there were other, bigger, more powerful rounds used, most of them predating the .45-70, and lots of the people using them kept on using them, after the .45-70 was available.
All but dead? your call, I suppose, but every black powder rifle round suffered a large slump in popularity with the advent of smokeless powder rifle rounds. Winchester continued making and selling .45-70 model 86s until production ended in 1936. .45-70 ammo production continued until it was halted, along with nearly everything else, for the WWII production effort. AND, it resumed right after the war ended, continuing to this day.
If not being in the top few new rifle sales calibers means "all but dead" there were a lot of all but dead rounds in use between the 1890s and the1970. Interest in the .45-70 did re-emerge with the approach of its 100th birthday, new rifles were made for the round, and people rediscovered that it was not only as useful as it always had been, but that in newer stronger rifles it was capable of even more. Personally I doubt more game has been killed with the .45-70 in the current 22 years of the 21st century than in the 20th and 19th centuries combined, but if that's your opinion, you're welcome to it.
If by milder loadings you mean the standard factory load that duplicates the original black powder loadings they are certainly suitable for deer, and bear, and many other things. And yes, when you launch a .45 caliber bullet using 70gr of black powder you get pretty much the same performance from a muzzle loader or a cartridge firearm.
With heavy loads, the Marlin does kick. No question about that. But I found it to be acceptable for what I got out of it. There's no free lunch. The .375 H&H I had wasn't quite as snappy, but it weighted a couple pounds more than the Marlin did.
Nothing is more effective than dead right there, which lots of good rounds will do. There is no "dead +". IF it puts down the game, it puts down the game. Everything else is a matter of personal preference about what works "better" for the individual users.
The difference is about 300fps between .45-70 max loads in Ruger single shots or Siamese Mausers and the .458 Win Mag. Lever gun max loads run about 500fps or so behind the .458Win Mag.
If you want a "classic" lever gun, decide what kind of "classic" floats your boat. Something from, or patterned after a rifle from the late 1800s, or something from the 1900 to WWII era? Something else? If you're looking for a degree of nostalgia along with functional utility, the .45-70 has it in spades, as do many other rifles and cartridges. What matters is what matters to you, If a Winchester or Marlin in .30-30 fits your needs, get one. If a Savage 99 in .300 Savage does it for you, get that. If you want a .45-70 of some kind, get one. They all work just fine, within the limitations of the loads. rifles, and shooters.
I've had several .45-70s, Marlin 1895 (the first one with the button safety, NOT the Guide gun), a Siamese Mauser, a Ruger No.3 and a T/C Contender. I've loaded from black powder levels up to what the Ruger can take. I know what they do, and don't do, and what they do, they do well. IF you need or want something they don't do, get something else. But don't tell me a .45-70 won't do what I KNOW it will do.
Just my 2 cents worth:
* When the 30-30 hit the market, it obsoleted a whole trainload of cartridges overnight. Not because of the cartridge alone, it was the combination of a light-weight, flat-shooting rifle that could be afforded by just about anyone and ammo was widely available.
* 45-70 was very popular, and a lot of that had to do with the fact that in the territories you could go to an army post and request ammo and the military was supposed to give you some. That whole "militia" thing, you know.
* 45-70 killed a lot of bison, but so did a lot of other cartridges and muzzleloaders. Remember, literally tens of millions of the things were slaughtered over about a 10-year period. Pretty sure it killed more bison than the so-called "buffalo rifles" in 45-120 and 50-100, they weren't introduced until the end of the buffalo hunting era.
* Yes, 45-70 kicks hard. Yes, 45-70 rifles are heavier than a 1892 or 1894. But just like the old-timers in the 1980s still held onto their Krags, old-timers in the 1890s held onto their big bore rifles, including 45-70s.
* Yes, 45-70 was almost dead by 1970 when Ruger and Marlin revived it, but almost dead not real dead. Notice it didn't take much to get people interested in it again. Would have been a different story with any number of other cartridges. Can you say 33 WCF or 35 WCF or 40-100 or 40-70 or 45-90 or . . .
* And, finally, yes the 45-70 is over-rated. People that don't know any better think that because it shoots a big bullet it's super powerful. Nope, pretty mild actually. About 1,300 fpe in standard loadings, but you can hotrod it to about 2,800 fpe. Nothing to get worked up over.
Having said all that, if you want one, get one. Just realize that a 444 Marlin has about 2.5X the energy, and a 12 ga shotgun has about 50% more energy, If you want it as a bear stopper it will work, but so will a lot of other big/slow cartridges. If you just want a nostalgia gun or to find something that's fun to shoot, the 45-70 will work fine.
* When the 30-30 hit the market, it obsoleted a whole trainload of cartridges overnight. Not because of the cartridge alone, it was the combination of a light-weight, flat-shooting rifle that could be afforded by just about anyone and ammo was widely available.
* 45-70 was very popular, and a lot of that had to do with the fact that in the territories you could go to an army post and request ammo and the military was supposed to give you some. That whole "militia" thing, you know.
* 45-70 killed a lot of bison, but so did a lot of other cartridges and muzzleloaders. Remember, literally tens of millions of the things were slaughtered over about a 10-year period. Pretty sure it killed more bison than the so-called "buffalo rifles" in 45-120 and 50-100, they weren't introduced until the end of the buffalo hunting era.
* Yes, 45-70 kicks hard. Yes, 45-70 rifles are heavier than a 1892 or 1894. But just like the old-timers in the 1980s still held onto their Krags, old-timers in the 1890s held onto their big bore rifles, including 45-70s.
* Yes, 45-70 was almost dead by 1970 when Ruger and Marlin revived it, but almost dead not real dead. Notice it didn't take much to get people interested in it again. Would have been a different story with any number of other cartridges. Can you say 33 WCF or 35 WCF or 40-100 or 40-70 or 45-90 or . . .
* And, finally, yes the 45-70 is over-rated. People that don't know any better think that because it shoots a big bullet it's super powerful. Nope, pretty mild actually. About 1,300 fpe in standard loadings, but you can hotrod it to about 2,800 fpe. Nothing to get worked up over.
Having said all that, if you want one, get one. Just realize that a 444 Marlin has about 2.5X the energy, and a 12 ga shotgun has about 50% more energy, If you want it as a bear stopper it will work, but so will a lot of other big/slow cartridges. If you just want a nostalgia gun or to find something that's fun to shoot, the 45-70 will work fine.
stagpanther
New member
45-70 is a unique and classic cartridge that has a great range of versatility in bullet and power selection. I have a Henry brass big boy with 22" barrel and love it--but it is a cartridge that is going to pound you hard in upper-end loads. If you have a strong masochist streak, the Henry is the one for you since it also comes with a brass buttpad which is guaranteed to colorize your shoulder.
I handload for mine and have a superbly accurate load using Lehigh solids. I think the short barrel guide gun is so-called for good reason. And for that reason it's probably no coincidence it's one of the first Marlin levers Ruger reintroduced. I don't hunt anymore, and I would say that the appeal of the 45-70 diminishes except as a nostalgia thing as a "casual sporting rifle" if you don't hunt with it. Still, it's a classic and I enjoy getting mine out a couple times a year for ten shots or so of self-abuse. With the longer sight radius of the 22" barrel length I can still just barely get away with shooting with irons passably well with my old deteriorating eyesight, something I can't do with short barrels.
I handload for mine and have a superbly accurate load using Lehigh solids. I think the short barrel guide gun is so-called for good reason. And for that reason it's probably no coincidence it's one of the first Marlin levers Ruger reintroduced. I don't hunt anymore, and I would say that the appeal of the 45-70 diminishes except as a nostalgia thing as a "casual sporting rifle" if you don't hunt with it. Still, it's a classic and I enjoy getting mine out a couple times a year for ten shots or so of self-abuse. With the longer sight radius of the 22" barrel length I can still just barely get away with shooting with irons passably well with my old deteriorating eyesight, something I can't do with short barrels.??
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mikejonestkd
New member
It just may be a typo on Scorch's post.
Trapdoor 45-70 loads are right around 1600-1700 ft/ lbs of energy
modern 45-70 loads are in the 2800 ft/lb range
.444 marlin loads are in the 2800 ft/ lb range
Have been thinking on getting one, now that Ruger makes them. Like a short barreled and handy powerful rifle. This new one is stainless, has a slightly larger lever and a threaded barrel. Would like to suppress one just for fun.
Already have a Marlin made blued Guide Gun. The only thing changed on it was to put on a decent recoil pad. 300 gn jhp's at 1800 fps mimic the factory rounds, and 350 gn soft points at 1800 -2000 fps are enough for anything i may end up using it for. The rifle is very accurate, and not just for an open sighted lever. Also have a 444 marlin and the 2 are functionally equivalent when using decent handloads (45-70 level 2 loads).
Would not even attempt the top lever loads Hodgen used in their annual manuals (but haven't looked in their annual manual for years), and leave them to ones braver than myself.
Like others said, it depends on what you want to do with it.
stagpanther
New member
I figured as much--but since I have a 444 marlin myself I was playing the "maybe he knows something I don't" card.
bamaranger
New member
over the centuries
I doubt very much that the 45-70 has killed more game in the past 23 years, than the previous 130 or so (is my math right
).
At some point, the trapdoors were available from various surplus houses, Meachum's, Bannerman's and others. Whether they were arsenal builds or not, they were available, and cheap. So was ammo. In researching this reply I found a Sears ad for a trapdoor 50-70 and 20 rds of ammo.....$2.
My Dad told the story of deer hunting with a pal in his boyhood days, which would have been the early 1930's. His buddy had a trapdoor 45-70, with BP ammo. I'm betting that there was more than one instance of rural folks hunting with affordable trapdoors.
I doubt very much that the 45-70 has killed more game in the past 23 years, than the previous 130 or so (is my math right
). At some point, the trapdoors were available from various surplus houses, Meachum's, Bannerman's and others. Whether they were arsenal builds or not, they were available, and cheap. So was ammo. In researching this reply I found a Sears ad for a trapdoor 50-70 and 20 rds of ammo.....$2.
My Dad told the story of deer hunting with a pal in his boyhood days, which would have been the early 1930's. His buddy had a trapdoor 45-70, with BP ammo. I'm betting that there was more than one instance of rural folks hunting with affordable trapdoors.
Not a typo, had a brain spasm or something. Somehow 1,300 fpe x 2.5 equaled about 2800. So I was wrong. Oh well. Not the first or the last time. So just correct it to about 2X
Just a note for you hotrodders: there are no "modern " SAAMI loads, SAAMI loads are about 1,300 fpe. We call those the "Trapdoor" loads, SAAMI calls them standard loads. But yes, there are more powerful recipes out there, including Buffalo Bore cartridges that will lock up a Ruger #1. But they're no fun to shoot. Just stick with standard loads.
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stagpanther
New member
I had a cervical fusion done on my C6/C7--did you have one?
FrankenMauser
New member
Any time someone mentions wanting Buffalo Bore, in the context of certain action types, specific firearms, or cartridges -- especially for Marlin 444s and 1895s -- I like to ask them to do one thing and then tell me if they still want it. No pretext, dissuasion, or opinion offered. Just a polite request:
"Google, 'buffalo bore kaboom' and add [applicable variable]."
The variable being cartridge, action type, model, etc.
The 444 Marlin and Marlin 1895 .45-70 guys are usually very surprised by how easy it is to get so many results.
It really hurts their feelings when I point out to them that the 1895 is the weakest receiver in the 336 family, not the strongest. And, second to that, is the 444 (pre-cartridge leveler delete). The 336 is the second strongest receiver, with the 336XLR coming in as top dog. Backwards from what the average person expects.
But Hornady's loads are, and were, still better.
Superformance is a 265 gr bullet at 2,400 fps, for 3,389 ft-lb. (I have only seen the claimed velocity in one of my rifles. Others are 2,250-2,300, unsurprisingly.)
Leverevolution 265 gr claims 2,325 fps for 3,180 ft-lb. (Not sure I've chrono'd that one.)
And, in the right action, you can go further.
The 444 Marlin case is built like .30-06 with an added rim. Far thicker case walls and web than oft-compared cartridges like .30-30, .30-40, pre-.375 Win .38-55, and over-hyped and misunderstood .45-70.
Pair that beefy case with a strong action and you can up the ante substantially.
Although I never achieved my goal of over 4,000 ft-lb, one of my loads did make it to 3,689 ft-lb by way of a 437 gr bullet clocking 1,950 fps (at 15 feet).
(4k would have required 2,031 fps)
"Google, 'buffalo bore kaboom' and add [applicable variable]."
The variable being cartridge, action type, model, etc.
The 444 Marlin and Marlin 1895 .45-70 guys are usually very surprised by how easy it is to get so many results.
It really hurts their feelings when I point out to them that the 1895 is the weakest receiver in the 336 family, not the strongest. And, second to that, is the 444 (pre-cartridge leveler delete). The 336 is the second strongest receiver, with the 336XLR coming in as top dog. Backwards from what the average person expects.
Even the wimpy Remington 240 gr load claimed better than that when it was still available. 2,350 fps (claimed) and something like 2,960 ft-lb, iirc.
But Hornady's loads are, and were, still better.
Superformance is a 265 gr bullet at 2,400 fps, for 3,389 ft-lb. (I have only seen the claimed velocity in one of my rifles. Others are 2,250-2,300, unsurprisingly.)
Leverevolution 265 gr claims 2,325 fps for 3,180 ft-lb. (Not sure I've chrono'd that one.)
And, in the right action, you can go further.
The 444 Marlin case is built like .30-06 with an added rim. Far thicker case walls and web than oft-compared cartridges like .30-30, .30-40, pre-.375 Win .38-55, and over-hyped and misunderstood .45-70.
Pair that beefy case with a strong action and you can up the ante substantially.
Although I never achieved my goal of over 4,000 ft-lb, one of my loads did make it to 3,689 ft-lb by way of a 437 gr bullet clocking 1,950 fps (at 15 feet).
(4k would have required 2,031 fps)
I doubt anyone's lawyers would allow them to claim they can overload cartridges to the point of being ridiculous. But Buffalo Bore has provided me with the following to work on:
* A Winchester Model 71 348 locked up because the Buffalo Bore load was too hot.
* A Winchester 1886 45-70 locked up because the BB load was too hot.
* A Ruger #3 45-70 that had to be disassembled using an arbor press because of brass flow.
* A Marlin 1894 in 44 mag that wouldn't open because of peened locking lug.
The added performance is never worth it. I always tell my customers to approach Buffalo Bore ammo with caution. But hey, that's just a few examples and Buffalo Bore has sold thousands of boxes of ammo over the years.
Four examples, two not in the caliber under discussion, and one .45-70 being an antique and none of them being a Ruger No.1, leave me unconvinced of the validity of this statement...
I'm not saying it couldn't happen or has never happened, and I do recognize that absence of evidence is not guaranteed evidence of absence, but if it were a common thing, you'd think there would be commonly available evidence.
The only gun that cannot be overloaded is the one that cannot/does not fire.
And mistakes, bad rounds, or some other flaw (weak brass??) can, and do happen. RARELY these days, but they are not impossible.
I'm not a Buffalo Bore supporter, I don't use their ammo, nothing they make is in any way more useful to me that what I can make and I've got better uses for $100+ than to spend it on a box of 20 cartridges.
Not going to Google BB kabooms, either, just as I don't bother with GLock Kabooms, as neither is of any interest to me. Not at all interested in the failures of products I don't own or use.
Nor do I see why it matters that one action is not as strong as another, UNLESS the "weak" action isn't strong enough to safely do its intended job.
IF you are looking to hotrod something beyond its usual and intended uses, you are off the map and "there be dragons here!". That is a specialty application and if you use tools/equipment not designed for that application, there are going to be failures, possibly dangerous ones.
Which doesn't stop some people from doing stupid stuff, anyway.
IF you've got doubts about Buffalo Bore ammo, to me, the answer is simple, don't use it. I don't use it, not because I have any concerns about it, I just don't choose to spend the money on it, so it will never be a problem for me, in my guns.
I think the new Marlin 1895s are good rifles (or at least the ones Marlin made were, can't speak to Remington ones, never had one, and I expect Ruger to do a good job but haven't actually seen any of them, yet) and I had heavy loads that pushed 400gr slugs into the 1800fps range, Besides stout recoil, never had any issues with mine.
I'm not saying it couldn't happen or has never happened, and I do recognize that absence of evidence is not guaranteed evidence of absence, but if it were a common thing, you'd think there would be commonly available evidence.
The only gun that cannot be overloaded is the one that cannot/does not fire.
And mistakes, bad rounds, or some other flaw (weak brass??) can, and do happen. RARELY these days, but they are not impossible.
I'm not a Buffalo Bore supporter, I don't use their ammo, nothing they make is in any way more useful to me that what I can make and I've got better uses for $100+ than to spend it on a box of 20 cartridges.
Not going to Google BB kabooms, either, just as I don't bother with GLock Kabooms, as neither is of any interest to me. Not at all interested in the failures of products I don't own or use.
Nor do I see why it matters that one action is not as strong as another, UNLESS the "weak" action isn't strong enough to safely do its intended job.
IF you are looking to hotrod something beyond its usual and intended uses, you are off the map and "there be dragons here!". That is a specialty application and if you use tools/equipment not designed for that application, there are going to be failures, possibly dangerous ones.
Which doesn't stop some people from doing stupid stuff, anyway.
IF you've got doubts about Buffalo Bore ammo, to me, the answer is simple, don't use it. I don't use it, not because I have any concerns about it, I just don't choose to spend the money on it, so it will never be a problem for me, in my guns.
I think the new Marlin 1895s are good rifles (or at least the ones Marlin made were, can't speak to Remington ones, never had one, and I expect Ruger to do a good job but haven't actually seen any of them, yet) and I had heavy loads that pushed 400gr slugs into the 1800fps range, Besides stout recoil, never had any issues with mine.