Marines - No ammo!
- Thread starter dving
- Start date
There are a lot of factors, was it an Marine Corps Sponsored team? Often Marines will do activities like this on their own. Often ammo is not avialable because someone forgot to request in time, most peace time training ammo needs to be requested 30 days out, or the Milstrips aren't wrtitten. If it was the end of one training quarter they could have already shot their allocation for the period. Normally you are given x numbers of rounds per Marine and weapon per year. After that the units OpsO divides that into training quarters, and oncce you have shot your quarters ammo, you have have short period until you can draw ammo again.
When I was onboard the U.S.S. Saratoga during the Gulf War and was reading a recent
copy of my "new American" magazine, somehow had got a hold of an interview with some Marines that were in an infantry outfit out there, we asked "if there was one thing they could have right now what would it be"
You would expect answers like, a cold beer, a big mac, a cool shower, a day off, but that was not the biggest answer, the answer they heard the most was "more ammo"
Scaaaarrry!
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"The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword, becuse the whole body of the people are armed"
Noah Webster
copy of my "new American" magazine, somehow had got a hold of an interview with some Marines that were in an infantry outfit out there, we asked "if there was one thing they could have right now what would it be"
You would expect answers like, a cold beer, a big mac, a cool shower, a day off, but that was not the biggest answer, the answer they heard the most was "more ammo"
Scaaaarrry!
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"The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword, becuse the whole body of the people are armed"
Noah Webster
If you think that's bad the Aussie troops in Indonesia are issued with 60rnds of ammo per man !
And if that aint bad enuff, their weapons profiency test is done WITHOUT ANY AMMO AT ALL.....
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"The Gun from Down Under !"
http://www.para1911fanclub.w3.to/
E-mail hotshot_2000@hotmail.com
ICQ # 68806935
And if that aint bad enuff, their weapons profiency test is done WITHOUT ANY AMMO AT ALL.....
------------------
"The Gun from Down Under !"
http://www.para1911fanclub.w3.to/
E-mail hotshot_2000@hotmail.com
ICQ # 68806935
I am the Unit Marksmanship coordinator for my Guard unit, and I can tell you that for many years when we were switching over from the 1911 to the M9, we had to supply our own ammo for the M9's to shoot competition..our unit was still issued 1911's at the time, but the team had M9's. Since the unit didn't have M9's on the property books, we couldn't draw 9 mm ammo. There was a lot of horse trading done to get ammo.
As recently as two years ago, the State matches here in my state were only able to shoot everyone because they bought some of my extra ammo because there were more shooters on the lines than had preregistered, and the organizers ran low on ammo.
We still are unable to draw ammo for training purposes as competition shooters, unless you are actually on the State team...that makes it very hard to recruit new shooters to practice and train to replace us some day on the firing line.
As recently as two years ago, the State matches here in my state were only able to shoot everyone because they bought some of my extra ammo because there were more shooters on the lines than had preregistered, and the organizers ran low on ammo.
We still are unable to draw ammo for training purposes as competition shooters, unless you are actually on the State team...that makes it very hard to recruit new shooters to practice and train to replace us some day on the firing line.
A Marine asking for ammo is like a printer asking for ink - tools of the trade. Bless every danged one of them and help them become the best they can become.
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HS,
Ref proficiency test without ammo. That's sick!
Practice does NOT make perfect!
*Perfect* practice makes perfect!
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HS,
Ref proficiency test without ammo. That's sick!
Practice does NOT make perfect!
*Perfect* practice makes perfect!
William R. Wilburn
New member
Ammo! Marines don't need no stinking ammo.
A squad of Marines with pointy sticks can take more ground than all the Nato Land Force Abrahms and Soviet Block T-72s combined. If the Marines aren't going up against armor, they don't bother with the pointy sticks.
For: MGSGT A. Roy Wilburn USMC(Retired) Semper Fi
-William
A squad of Marines with pointy sticks can take more ground than all the Nato Land Force Abrahms and Soviet Block T-72s combined. If the Marines aren't going up against armor, they don't bother with the pointy sticks.
For: MGSGT A. Roy Wilburn USMC(Retired) Semper Fi
-William
Matt Bower
Inactive
What STLRN says is true, regarding fiscal quarters and the annual allotment. However, I'm one of those unit OpsO's he refers to, and I'll tell you this: the Corps is, in my humble, meaningless, company-grade opinion, desperately hurting for training ammo. The Individual Training Standards for each MOS (military occupational specialty) identify the training a Marine is supposed to accomplish in order to remain proficient at his job. The ITS also includes a table that spells out how many rounds of each type of ammunition it takes, annually, to meet the requirements of that training standard. Total up the quantity of each type of ammo used for each training standard, then multiply that by the number of Marines of that MOS that your command has on its Table of Organization, and you arrive at the total quantity of ammunition of each type that your unit SHOULD rate for a training year.
I've done just that for my command. Most of our Marines are supposed to fire, for example, somewhere around 750 rounds of 9mm through the M9 in a given year. Now, by my standards that's pretty scary. 750 rounds a year does not a proficient shooter make, IMHO. However, here's what's really scary: I ONLY HAVE ENOUGH AMMO TO GIVE THEM APPROXIMATELY ONE-THIRD OF WHAT THEY RATE! That's right, the Marines of this command are getting about a third of their already-meager 9mm allotment for FY00.
This problem is universal throughout the Corps, and probably the other services as well. I've experienced it in other commands, and have discussed it with fellow officers from even MORE commands. What's even more disturbing is a conversation I had with a major who twiced briefed the GTARG--Ground Training Ammunition Review Group. (These are the guys who decide how much ammo to buy for the Corps.) He tried to argue for more ammo for the units he was representing, using the same argument that I just made. He was told something along the lines of, "don't even TRY to use the ITS as an argument--in here, the ITS means nothing!"
Now, the ITSs are written by subject matter experts in the particular field. If those guys say "this is what a Marine has to do to be proficient--to survive and win in combat," and they also say, "doing this takes XXX rounds of ammunition A," then in my book we need to give each of those Marines XXX rounds of ammunition A to train with, or we are putting his life and the success of his mission at risk!
The problem is that the GTARG's hands are tied. They have a budget, and it can't be stretched far enough to buy everything that every different ITS says the Corps needs. So they have to make hard decisions about where the cuts can be best afforded. The thing of it is, they should never have to make that sort of decision at all, as far as I'm concerned!
That's where Congress comes in, boys and girls. So the next time you hear an elected official talking about cutting defense spending, I ask that you think back to this post. Then, consider the possibility although we may be spending a great deal of money on defense we're still hurting in some very fundamental areas--so maybe, just maybe, we're not spending ENOUGH.
I've done just that for my command. Most of our Marines are supposed to fire, for example, somewhere around 750 rounds of 9mm through the M9 in a given year. Now, by my standards that's pretty scary. 750 rounds a year does not a proficient shooter make, IMHO. However, here's what's really scary: I ONLY HAVE ENOUGH AMMO TO GIVE THEM APPROXIMATELY ONE-THIRD OF WHAT THEY RATE! That's right, the Marines of this command are getting about a third of their already-meager 9mm allotment for FY00.
This problem is universal throughout the Corps, and probably the other services as well. I've experienced it in other commands, and have discussed it with fellow officers from even MORE commands. What's even more disturbing is a conversation I had with a major who twiced briefed the GTARG--Ground Training Ammunition Review Group. (These are the guys who decide how much ammo to buy for the Corps.) He tried to argue for more ammo for the units he was representing, using the same argument that I just made. He was told something along the lines of, "don't even TRY to use the ITS as an argument--in here, the ITS means nothing!"
Now, the ITSs are written by subject matter experts in the particular field. If those guys say "this is what a Marine has to do to be proficient--to survive and win in combat," and they also say, "doing this takes XXX rounds of ammunition A," then in my book we need to give each of those Marines XXX rounds of ammunition A to train with, or we are putting his life and the success of his mission at risk!
The problem is that the GTARG's hands are tied. They have a budget, and it can't be stretched far enough to buy everything that every different ITS says the Corps needs. So they have to make hard decisions about where the cuts can be best afforded. The thing of it is, they should never have to make that sort of decision at all, as far as I'm concerned!
That's where Congress comes in, boys and girls. So the next time you hear an elected official talking about cutting defense spending, I ask that you think back to this post. Then, consider the possibility although we may be spending a great deal of money on defense we're still hurting in some very fundamental areas--so maybe, just maybe, we're not spending ENOUGH.
MAtt:
Who are you the 3 (or is it the 3A) for? I was the replacement 3 for 5/10 a couple of years, when the Bn was waiting for a in bound major. Talk about hard as hell trying to convince a bunch of Capt Btry Co when I was a 1stLt. Their have only been a few times I have had enough ammo. One was as a LCpl and going to SWA. The only other time was on UDP at the end of a FY, we had so much ammo we couldn't fire it all.
Who are you the 3 (or is it the 3A) for? I was the replacement 3 for 5/10 a couple of years, when the Bn was waiting for a in bound major. Talk about hard as hell trying to convince a bunch of Capt Btry Co when I was a 1stLt. Their have only been a few times I have had enough ammo. One was as a LCpl and going to SWA. The only other time was on UDP at the end of a FY, we had so much ammo we couldn't fire it all.