mare's leg question

K

kcub

New member
Given the short barrel (12"?) how long a butt stock can you have and still be legal (without going the SBR route)?
 
Oh jeeze. I have a feeling the answer to your question is if you ever shoulder it you might be punished.

It's pistol and probably runs the lines of using the sig brace on an AR. The AR's even have some sort of cheek press buffer that's ok as long as it isn't shouldered.

Not my gun just a picture on the web.

 
I don't think you're going to find a precise, to the 1/16th of an inch measurement anywhere. You can make it longer and longer but eventually the AFT will determine that you've altered the design to make it long enough where you intend to shoulder the weapon. Maybe you could make it as long as you wanted if you put a spear point on the end.

Why anyone would want to make the handgrip longer (and yet still not design it so that it could be shouldered) is just a bit ...... odd.
 
You can't have a butt stock at all and have it legal. In fact, if you shoulder the existing stubby handle thingy you are "redesigning" the gun into a SBR, at least according to ATF's recent rulings on the Sig brace for AR pistols.
 
Yeah but since a mares leg already has a butt stock and not a pistol grip how do you define where it should stop?

henry_mares_leg_f.jpg
 
I really don't get the issue with mare's legs.. They are illegal to own here in NYS, along with alot of other stuff... And I could go on and on but I don't wish to jack this thread into politics...

So can anyone tell me what the big hoo-ha is about mare's legs?? Why do the powers that be have such a hard-on about them?
 
Given the short barrel (12"?) how long a butt stock can you have and still be legal (without going the SBR route)?
Click to expand...

(DISCLAIMER, I'm not a lawyer, nor did I spend last night in a Holiday Inn, so my advice is worth what you paid for it...;))

Look at the Federal laws (also you particular state).

They define rifle, shotgun and handgun by barrel and overall length combinations.

How is the Mare's Leg classified now, its a handgun, isn't it?

Interpreting the law is tricky, and the only one that matters is the ATF's interpretation. Exceed that, and you could be arguing before a judge.

Basically, if you have something that functions as a stock, that is clearly intended to be used from the shoulder, and the barrel is less than 16", it is an SBR. (always, always ALWAYS get approval from ATF BEFORE making such a device!!!)

SO, how long could a Mare's Leg stock be, with a 12" barrel??
I don't know. Logic suggests that until you reach the minimum legal overall length for a rifle, then its still a handgun. BUT the ATF might have a different definition.

I suggest you ask them. And, if you actually plan on doing it, that you get their answer in writing, notarized, if possible, BEFORE you do it.
 
Issues I see with extending the grip area into a buttstock-

* A pistol cannot have a buttstock, and since your Mare's Leg is classified as a pistol, you cannot do it without running into the issue sooner or later.

* A SBR only takes a BATFE form submitted with payment and the eventual tax stamp and to become legal to build with no legal issues. Notice I said legal to build after I said you need a tax stamp.

I also fail to see the fascination with a copy of a rifle built by the prop department for a TV series 50 years ago, but to each his own. I see it as too short to shoot like a rifle and too long to shoot like a pistol, and awkward to manipulate while you try either of those.
 
Agreed. I can't for the life of me see the use for it as is. It's awkward to:
  • fire
  • sight
  • cycle

It's really a terrible pistol and a terrible carbine unless you are mini-me. And that begs the question, if someone the size of mini-me shoulders and fires the mares leg as is, is he too a felon?

So the only legal thing you can do is recklessly "shoot from the hip" like Josh Randall?
 
Last edited:
Agreed. I can't for the life of me see the use for it as is. It's awkward to:
Click to expand...

It is a toy, like a AR or AK pistol. I hate to use that word in relation to firearms, but it is the most appropriate I can come up with. Some people thing it is a fun way to turn ammo into noise.

And that begs the question, if someone the size of mini-me shoulders and fires the mares leg as is, is he too a felon?
Click to expand...

Pretty much. For some background, see the recent ATF ruling regarding the Sig brace for AR pistols:

Here is the full text: https://www.atf.gov/file/11816/download and the section on "redesigning"

ATF said:
ATF hereby confirms that if used as designed — to assist shooters in stabilizing a handgun while shooting with a single hand — the device is not considered a shoulder stock and therefore may be attached to a handgun without making a NFA firearm. However, ATF has received numerous inquiries regarding alternate uses for this device, including use as a shoulder stock. Because the NFA defines both rifle and shotgun to include any “weapon designed or redesigned, made or remade, and intended to be fired from the shoulder,” any person who redesigns a stabilizing brace for use as a shoulder stock makes a NFA firearm when attached to a pistol with a rifled barrel under 16 inches in length or a handgun with a smooth bore under 18 inches in length.

(skipping a paragraph that doesn't really apply)

The pistol stabilizing brace was neither “designed” nor approved to be used as a shoulder stock, and therefore use as a shoulder stock constitutes a “redesign” of the device because a possessor has changed the very function of the item. Any individual letters stating otherwise are contrary to the plain language of the NFA, misapply Federal law, and are hereby revoked. Any person who intends to use a handgun stabilizing brace as a shoulder stock on a pistol (having a rifled barrel under 16 inches in length or a smooth bore firearm with a barrel under 18 inches in length) must first file an ATF Form 1 and pay the applicable tax because the resulting firearm will be subject to all provisions of the NFA
Click to expand...

Yeah, the grip on the Mare's Leg is different than the Sig brace, but following their logic, my assumption would be that their view is that the grip on the Mare's leg is "designed" to be used with one hand as a pistol grip, and that by shouldering it, you are redesigning it to be a shoulder stock and creating a short barreled rifle.
 
The appeal of the Mare's Leg is obviously hard for many to comprehend.

Of course it's near useless.
That's not the point. :)

For those of us with enough years on board to have watched McQueen's show on TV when it was new, it's just plain one of the coolest guns that ever came outa Hollywood, and even though it was totally generated by Hollywood, it's still one of the coolest guns that ever came outa Hollywood.

Doesn't have to be practical.
Doesn't have to be a great pistol.
Doesn't have to be a great carbine.

Just has to be cool, functional (unlike the toy version I had when I was 8), and a fun reminder of simpler times, both in the imaginary TV version of the Old West, and my own childhood in the real West.

Lotsa people buy other hardware they think is cool that I find boring, I don't get on them over it.

Let us enjoy the ML, for whatever reasons, and you go play with your 40-pound tricked out night-vision equipped $5000 AR. :)
Deal?
Denis
 
Why not buy one of these...Rossi M92 Blued 16" .357MAG/.38SPL
With a four inch longer barrel??

And save yourself a lot of grief.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top