many choices
- Thread starter hklover21
- Start date
- Status
It depends on a number of things.
What is the gun's purpose? Home defense, carry, target shooting, hunting or a combination of these?
What experience have you had with handguns?
Is there a certain type you like?
Tell us what your needs are and we'll see what we can come up with.
What is the gun's purpose? Home defense, carry, target shooting, hunting or a combination of these?
What experience have you had with handguns?
Is there a certain type you like?
Tell us what your needs are and we'll see what we can come up with.
James Montes
New member
To: HKLOVER21
The question you pose is very broad. What do you intend to use the gun for? Target shooting? Concealed carry? Collection Purposes? Home Defense? Etc, Etc,
My personal all time favorite handgun is JOHN MOSES BROWNINGs single action operation designed 1911. All Steel in .45 AUTO... I was fortunate enough to buy a WILSONs "stealth" custom 1911 this year. 4" barrel reliable extremely accurate but very, very $$$...
I do not recommend this handgun to anyone because of the very high $$$....
But there are plenty of affordable 1911 style pistols out there...
Springfield Armory seems to be making the best mass produced 1911 style handguns and they shoot nearly as good as my custom...
In DA/SA operation handguns the SIG P SERIES are my personal favorites. They are ultra reliable/accurate, easy to operate/maintain, well made, and you can find them for as little as $500 or less if you really look!!!
For home defense and range shooting I like the P220 8+1 in .45ACP.
For concealed carry I would go with the P239 7+1 in either .40S&W or .357SIG. The .40S&W cartridge is my first choice because of ammo availability and cost... With this model you can shoot both calibers with a simple barrel & mag change. Both these models are single stack slim line style pistols which I prefer ala the 1911... Magazine capacity is not an issue to me. But to a lot of gun folk it is. The P229 hi-cap(10+1 standard or 12+1 if you want to pay as much as $100 per mag) also in the interchangeable .357SIG/.40SW cartridges would be a good selection, however the 229 is very beefy in the slide and frame...
I have used every one of the SIG P-SERIES of handguns except the $$$ P210 model...
All are great guns, and every SIG fan seems to have a favorite...
Which ever model a person decides on you cannot go wrong. The no longer imported P225 (8+1/9MM) is going for as little as $300 these days. I really do not care for 9MM that much, but it is a very effective cartidge all the same. If cost $$$ is an issue this would be a great choice!!!
Judging by your ALIAS I can see that you are another one of those HK genre. I personally do not like HK pistols, they are very $$$ and have no reason to be... But if you have to have one go with P7M8 (8+1/9MM) the squeeze cocker single action gun takes some getting used too. Like all HKs this gun is very $$$ (as much as $1k). But it is made of arguably the best steel around, it is very very accurate, reliable, and all together a really nice pistol. The only draw backs are the price, parts availability, and if it is an issue the caliber...
I always recommend this pistol for just plain ole plinking fun...
The RUGER MKII in .22lr is really inexpensive$$$, ammo is cheap, the gun is accurate, you can do a lot with it, mount pistol scopes etc; It is not a combat pistol but I think every pistol owner would benefit by owning one.
Finally there is the wheel guns. though I prefer semi-autos, revolvers have there qualities/advantages. Smith and Wesson makes really good revolvers, if you want to go that route, the .357 MAG is my prefered revolver cartridge and you can shoot less $$$ .38 SPECIAL rounds through your .357MAG... They are accurate, reliable, easy to use. You can shoot a 2 1/2 barreled snub nose revolver through a coat pocket if necessary... A semi-auto may not be able to do that without jamming.
What ever you decide on make sure you do as much research and testing as possible. I know a lot of people who spend $$$ on guns they really do not like... It is better to spend a little more $$$ now than save a little $$$ for an inferior product that you won't be happy with later on down the road...
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SURE SHOT
[This message has been edited by James Montes (edited October 17, 1999).]
[This message has been edited by James Montes (edited October 17, 1999).]
[This message has been edited by James Montes (edited October 17, 1999).]
The question you pose is very broad. What do you intend to use the gun for? Target shooting? Concealed carry? Collection Purposes? Home Defense? Etc, Etc,
My personal all time favorite handgun is JOHN MOSES BROWNINGs single action operation designed 1911. All Steel in .45 AUTO... I was fortunate enough to buy a WILSONs "stealth" custom 1911 this year. 4" barrel reliable extremely accurate but very, very $$$...
I do not recommend this handgun to anyone because of the very high $$$....
But there are plenty of affordable 1911 style pistols out there...
Springfield Armory seems to be making the best mass produced 1911 style handguns and they shoot nearly as good as my custom...
In DA/SA operation handguns the SIG P SERIES are my personal favorites. They are ultra reliable/accurate, easy to operate/maintain, well made, and you can find them for as little as $500 or less if you really look!!!
For home defense and range shooting I like the P220 8+1 in .45ACP.
For concealed carry I would go with the P239 7+1 in either .40S&W or .357SIG. The .40S&W cartridge is my first choice because of ammo availability and cost... With this model you can shoot both calibers with a simple barrel & mag change. Both these models are single stack slim line style pistols which I prefer ala the 1911... Magazine capacity is not an issue to me. But to a lot of gun folk it is. The P229 hi-cap(10+1 standard or 12+1 if you want to pay as much as $100 per mag) also in the interchangeable .357SIG/.40SW cartridges would be a good selection, however the 229 is very beefy in the slide and frame...
I have used every one of the SIG P-SERIES of handguns except the $$$ P210 model...
All are great guns, and every SIG fan seems to have a favorite...
Which ever model a person decides on you cannot go wrong. The no longer imported P225 (8+1/9MM) is going for as little as $300 these days. I really do not care for 9MM that much, but it is a very effective cartidge all the same. If cost $$$ is an issue this would be a great choice!!!
Judging by your ALIAS I can see that you are another one of those HK genre. I personally do not like HK pistols, they are very $$$ and have no reason to be... But if you have to have one go with P7M8 (8+1/9MM) the squeeze cocker single action gun takes some getting used too. Like all HKs this gun is very $$$ (as much as $1k). But it is made of arguably the best steel around, it is very very accurate, reliable, and all together a really nice pistol. The only draw backs are the price, parts availability, and if it is an issue the caliber...
I always recommend this pistol for just plain ole plinking fun...
The RUGER MKII in .22lr is really inexpensive$$$, ammo is cheap, the gun is accurate, you can do a lot with it, mount pistol scopes etc; It is not a combat pistol but I think every pistol owner would benefit by owning one.
Finally there is the wheel guns. though I prefer semi-autos, revolvers have there qualities/advantages. Smith and Wesson makes really good revolvers, if you want to go that route, the .357 MAG is my prefered revolver cartridge and you can shoot less $$$ .38 SPECIAL rounds through your .357MAG... They are accurate, reliable, easy to use. You can shoot a 2 1/2 barreled snub nose revolver through a coat pocket if necessary... A semi-auto may not be able to do that without jamming.
What ever you decide on make sure you do as much research and testing as possible. I know a lot of people who spend $$$ on guns they really do not like... It is better to spend a little more $$$ now than save a little $$$ for an inferior product that you won't be happy with later on down the road...
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SURE SHOT
[This message has been edited by James Montes (edited October 17, 1999).]
[This message has been edited by James Montes (edited October 17, 1999).]
[This message has been edited by James Montes (edited October 17, 1999).]
I certainly agree with all the posted replies to your inquiry. I use - and recommend - the Kimber 1911A1 (in .45 ACP), the Glock 23 (in .40 S&W), the Sig Sauer P-220 (in .45 ACP), and the Sig Sauer P-226 (in .40 S&W and .357 Sig). All of these are high quality automatic pistols. One could hardly go wrong with a handgun made by any of the above manufacturers (as well as some others such as H&K).
I noted, however, that your question indicated HANDGUNS, not just pistols. The revolver versus automatic pistol discussion is an old one, considered MANY times in this - and other - venues. However, there was an excellent thread on this forum about two weeks ago (Topic: Need advice on first practical, "non-plinker."), which generally discussed revolver options and specifically .357 magnums. I recommend you retrieve and read this thread, which offers another viable set of alternatives.
In sum:
(a) buy high quality and maintain it;
(b) be comfortable with your choice in terms of hand-feel, sight picture, trigger-pull, application(s), ammunition cost, and SAFETY;
(c) practice, practice, practice to gain real proficiency; and
(d) have fun.
I noted, however, that your question indicated HANDGUNS, not just pistols. The revolver versus automatic pistol discussion is an old one, considered MANY times in this - and other - venues. However, there was an excellent thread on this forum about two weeks ago (Topic: Need advice on first practical, "non-plinker."), which generally discussed revolver options and specifically .357 magnums. I recommend you retrieve and read this thread, which offers another viable set of alternatives.
In sum:
(a) buy high quality and maintain it;
(b) be comfortable with your choice in terms of hand-feel, sight picture, trigger-pull, application(s), ammunition cost, and SAFETY;
(c) practice, practice, practice to gain real proficiency; and
(d) have fun.
James Montes
New member
To: HKLOVER21
In my previous posting I told you that JOHN MOSES BROWNINGs timely classic 1911 style pistols are my FAV, but I really did not explain why...
1) The single action TRIGGER. It is the only manufactured style "COMBAT" pistol that has a "SLACKLESS" single action trigger, eliminating the need to take out the slack before squeezing off a round! This is an AWESOME feature that is excellent for "double tapping". And for me it helps in accurate shooting scenerios...
2) The slim line design. The 1911 single stacks have a great point and shoot feel unequalled by no other...
3) SAFETY FEATURES. Mine has two manual safeties A)Thumb safety & B) "Beavertale" grip safety...
4) The .45 ACP caliber, This cartridge was designed for one purpose and one purpose only. To be a man stopper!!! And it has proven itself as such for almost 100 years...
5) Reliability and durability. This style of handgun has proven itself in two WORLD WARS, KOREA, VIETNAM, and to some extent DESERT STORM. People say how tough their POLYMER GLOCKS, HK USPs, and other PLASTICS are but they have not and probably never will go through the stringent real world combat action that the 1911 has endured. Come on were talking about the trenches of EUROPE, deserts of AFRICA, and jungles of SOUTH EAST ASIA. The 1911 has been there done that and most definetly has the "T-SHIRT" to prove it!!!
There are other good guns out there...
GLOCK, HK, SIG etc etc. but a well tuned 1911 style handgun is in my humble opinion the closest thing to the perfect semi auto pistol there is. And probably ever will be, in my life time at least. The "MAN" who designed it after all was a "GENIUS" and he single handedly change the world of firearms with his innovative ideas and designs...
BROWNING gave us the 1911, fully automatic weapons i.e. the BAR (Browning Automatic Rifle; one of the 20th centuries first FULLY AUTOMATIC weapons used in WWII). numerous rifles, and the first HI-CAPACITY double stack pistol in the BROWNING HI-POWER to name but a few of his contributions.
I could go on forever when talking about the truly AMERICAN 1911, I like it that much!!!
But don't just take my word for it pick one up and decide for yourself!!! They come in many different sizes these days. There is the traditional GOVERNMENT style with a 5" barrel this is a BIG gun but more than manageable for a grown man. Then you have the COMMANDER style with a 4.25" barrel this stlye seems to be a good compromise for a full size pistol. Your COMPACTS have 4" barrels or shorter and are more ideal for concealed carry than the other two mentioned. That is probably the only reason that I like my COMPACT so much... I do not want to leave out the new LONG SLIDES (6" or longer barrels) being manufactured these days. I really do not see the point in this type of 1911. I guess it is for longer range shooting; though the .45 ACP like other auto pistol cartridges is not really an "effective" long range caliber. If you want LONG RANGE use a rifle!
My $00.02.
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SURE SHOT
[This message has been edited by James Montes (edited October 17, 1999).]
[This message has been edited by James Montes (edited October 17, 1999).]
[This message has been edited by James Montes (edited October 17, 1999).]
In my previous posting I told you that JOHN MOSES BROWNINGs timely classic 1911 style pistols are my FAV, but I really did not explain why...
1) The single action TRIGGER. It is the only manufactured style "COMBAT" pistol that has a "SLACKLESS" single action trigger, eliminating the need to take out the slack before squeezing off a round! This is an AWESOME feature that is excellent for "double tapping". And for me it helps in accurate shooting scenerios...
2) The slim line design. The 1911 single stacks have a great point and shoot feel unequalled by no other...
3) SAFETY FEATURES. Mine has two manual safeties A)Thumb safety & B) "Beavertale" grip safety...
4) The .45 ACP caliber, This cartridge was designed for one purpose and one purpose only. To be a man stopper!!! And it has proven itself as such for almost 100 years...
5) Reliability and durability. This style of handgun has proven itself in two WORLD WARS, KOREA, VIETNAM, and to some extent DESERT STORM. People say how tough their POLYMER GLOCKS, HK USPs, and other PLASTICS are but they have not and probably never will go through the stringent real world combat action that the 1911 has endured. Come on were talking about the trenches of EUROPE, deserts of AFRICA, and jungles of SOUTH EAST ASIA. The 1911 has been there done that and most definetly has the "T-SHIRT" to prove it!!!
There are other good guns out there...
GLOCK, HK, SIG etc etc. but a well tuned 1911 style handgun is in my humble opinion the closest thing to the perfect semi auto pistol there is. And probably ever will be, in my life time at least. The "MAN" who designed it after all was a "GENIUS" and he single handedly change the world of firearms with his innovative ideas and designs...
BROWNING gave us the 1911, fully automatic weapons i.e. the BAR (Browning Automatic Rifle; one of the 20th centuries first FULLY AUTOMATIC weapons used in WWII). numerous rifles, and the first HI-CAPACITY double stack pistol in the BROWNING HI-POWER to name but a few of his contributions.
I could go on forever when talking about the truly AMERICAN 1911, I like it that much!!!
But don't just take my word for it pick one up and decide for yourself!!! They come in many different sizes these days. There is the traditional GOVERNMENT style with a 5" barrel this is a BIG gun but more than manageable for a grown man. Then you have the COMMANDER style with a 4.25" barrel this stlye seems to be a good compromise for a full size pistol. Your COMPACTS have 4" barrels or shorter and are more ideal for concealed carry than the other two mentioned. That is probably the only reason that I like my COMPACT so much... I do not want to leave out the new LONG SLIDES (6" or longer barrels) being manufactured these days. I really do not see the point in this type of 1911. I guess it is for longer range shooting; though the .45 ACP like other auto pistol cartridges is not really an "effective" long range caliber. If you want LONG RANGE use a rifle!
My $00.02.
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SURE SHOT
[This message has been edited by James Montes (edited October 17, 1999).]
[This message has been edited by James Montes (edited October 17, 1999).]
[This message has been edited by James Montes (edited October 17, 1999).]
James Montes
New member
Someone jump on the 1911 bandwagon here, or not...
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SURE SHOT
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SURE SHOT
James Montes
New member
To DAN:
I like the P226 as much as any SIG but feel in a FULL SIZE SIG a P220 is a better choice for the CIVY, true the 45 AMMO is not as world wide available as the 9mm and it does cost a good $3 more per box. You can find 45 ammo in every sporting goods, gun shop, or gun show in the US. It is AMERICAS favorite auto cartridge. However, you won't fall into that HI CAP MAG dilemma seeing how the P226 is meant to hold 15+1 in 9MM. Also this variation (9MM) will no longer be imported into the US for the civilian market. The P220 does not seem to be going away anytime soon, I find it more enjoyable to shoot than the 9MM P226 and as a home defense weapon I trust the 45 auto cartridge with my LIFE, regretfully I do not feel the same about the cartridge that the NATO BOZOS have been craming down our throats since the 80s, the 9MM. True the 9MM is a deadly round that has been around since the turn of the century, but it is not a .45. It is an economical round, thats why most military units use it. I am in the MIL I have to use it...
But I have said it before and will say it again...
"The SIG P220 in .45ACP is arguably the best DA/SA pistol in the world."
My $00.02.
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SURE SHOT
[This message has been edited by James Montes (edited October 17, 1999).]
I like the P226 as much as any SIG but feel in a FULL SIZE SIG a P220 is a better choice for the CIVY, true the 45 AMMO is not as world wide available as the 9mm and it does cost a good $3 more per box. You can find 45 ammo in every sporting goods, gun shop, or gun show in the US. It is AMERICAS favorite auto cartridge. However, you won't fall into that HI CAP MAG dilemma seeing how the P226 is meant to hold 15+1 in 9MM. Also this variation (9MM) will no longer be imported into the US for the civilian market. The P220 does not seem to be going away anytime soon, I find it more enjoyable to shoot than the 9MM P226 and as a home defense weapon I trust the 45 auto cartridge with my LIFE, regretfully I do not feel the same about the cartridge that the NATO BOZOS have been craming down our throats since the 80s, the 9MM. True the 9MM is a deadly round that has been around since the turn of the century, but it is not a .45. It is an economical round, thats why most military units use it. I am in the MIL I have to use it...
But I have said it before and will say it again...
"The SIG P220 in .45ACP is arguably the best DA/SA pistol in the world."
My $00.02.
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SURE SHOT
[This message has been edited by James Montes (edited October 17, 1999).]
James Montes,
I'm in the OR NOT category. In my opinion, the 1911 has already seen it's day. It makes no sense to me to carry such a large and heavy gun that only carries only 7 or 8 rounds; no sense at all. I like a defense firearm to be simple (no external safties).
But that's just me,
Ben
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Besides, I didn't become a "Senior Member" by just sitting around!
"Gun Control Is Being Able To Hit Your Target"
[This message has been edited by Ben (edited October 17, 1999).]
I'm in the OR NOT category. In my opinion, the 1911 has already seen it's day. It makes no sense to me to carry such a large and heavy gun that only carries only 7 or 8 rounds; no sense at all. I like a defense firearm to be simple (no external safties).
But that's just me,
Ben
------------------
Besides, I didn't become a "Senior Member" by just sitting around!
"Gun Control Is Being Able To Hit Your Target"
[This message has been edited by Ben (edited October 17, 1999).]
James Montes
New member
To: BEN
I can understand your simplicty argument but 7+1 or 8+1 for CIVY use is more than enough fire power. It only takes one bullet to stop someone. I generally carry my SIG P239 in .40SW for SIMPLICTY reasons. And really do like SIGs. As for this continual NAVY SEAL thing. Civilians will never see or experience the type of combat scenerios (real and training) that the NAVAL SPECIAL WARFARE COMMUNITY endures. Thank GOD for that!!! It is an impractical comparison for this forum.
As for the 1911 it has been around stayed around and continues to be going strong for a very, very long time... further evidence that it is one of the best if not the best auto loaders ever devised...
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SURE SHOT
[This message has been edited by James Montes (edited October 17, 1999).]
I can understand your simplicty argument but 7+1 or 8+1 for CIVY use is more than enough fire power. It only takes one bullet to stop someone. I generally carry my SIG P239 in .40SW for SIMPLICTY reasons. And really do like SIGs. As for this continual NAVY SEAL thing. Civilians will never see or experience the type of combat scenerios (real and training) that the NAVAL SPECIAL WARFARE COMMUNITY endures. Thank GOD for that!!! It is an impractical comparison for this forum.
As for the 1911 it has been around stayed around and continues to be going strong for a very, very long time... further evidence that it is one of the best if not the best auto loaders ever devised...
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SURE SHOT
[This message has been edited by James Montes (edited October 17, 1999).]
James Montes
New member
To: all anti 1911 gunners
I am certainly no expert in the world of HANDGUNS...
COL. COOPER (Gunsite), CLINT SMITH (Thunder Ranch), Massad Ayoob (Lethal Force Institute)all proponents of the 1911...
The experts say so I know so from personal experience...
Heavy? No such thing as a heavy handgun...
Least not for me...
I guess I am stronger than the average man...
Hope it never takes 7+1 to defend my life or the lives of my family, but if so I know how to snap another one in there pretty quick...
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SURE SHOT
I am certainly no expert in the world of HANDGUNS...
COL. COOPER (Gunsite), CLINT SMITH (Thunder Ranch), Massad Ayoob (Lethal Force Institute)all proponents of the 1911...
The experts say so I know so from personal experience...
Heavy? No such thing as a heavy handgun...
Least not for me...
I guess I am stronger than the average man...
Hope it never takes 7+1 to defend my life or the lives of my family, but if so I know how to snap another one in there pretty quick...
------------------
SURE SHOT
James Montes
New member
To: Ben
Correct me if I am wrong...
You said you owned a SIG P229 and HK USP Compact on another forum topic...
Does not the USP have an external manual safety to fumble with???
I can manipulate the thumb safety on my single action 1911 as quick as the first double action shot of my SIGs...
The idea that the 1911 or any other gun is slower vice a manual safety is moot if one has trained with a weapon that has such a feature!!!
P.S. H2O like the 1911 has been around a long time, I hope it (H2O) has not seen its day, cause I still like it more than I like COCA-COLA...
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SURE SHOT
[This message has been edited by James Montes (edited October 18, 1999).]
Correct me if I am wrong...
You said you owned a SIG P229 and HK USP Compact on another forum topic...
Does not the USP have an external manual safety to fumble with???
I can manipulate the thumb safety on my single action 1911 as quick as the first double action shot of my SIGs...
The idea that the 1911 or any other gun is slower vice a manual safety is moot if one has trained with a weapon that has such a feature!!!
P.S. H2O like the 1911 has been around a long time, I hope it (H2O) has not seen its day, cause I still like it more than I like COCA-COLA...
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SURE SHOT
[This message has been edited by James Montes (edited October 18, 1999).]
James Montes
New member
Lets keep this one ALIVE folks...
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SURE SHOT
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SURE SHOT
Being a novice guy in Gun, before I decided to buy a second pistol for me as (side arm, or for shooting competition purposes), I bought a lot of GunBooks to read written by reputable authors not only Writers practicing Journalism, but they are former Defense Officials from the Military Services who has combat experiences also.
Many of these authors discussed a lot about particular gunmake, calibres durability and many aspect about gun. Most of their conclusion prefer the .45 1911 models. Only they said, it needs for some to have good training because of the kick.
Everybody knows that the 9MM and .45in bullets are the only famous widely used military cartridge for handguns and the 9mm also were used much for rifles and sub- machinegun. It was claimed by the experts that the 1911 models designed by J.M. Browning is the most copied pistols be it in 9MM or .45
The British upgrade their former Webley into .45 or .455 as they have bad experienced with their lower caliber, but only they have un-attractive models of their pistols. The same thing with the US early military forces, they recede from the caliber .38 because their military in the field during the colonization period complaints of the less effectiveness of the .38 in combat. Thus the .45 pistols were issued in great numbers but not enough for the forces so, then they add the .45 revolvers.
To date, I read a lot of the gun school in the internet and their last advise is, choose the bullets with the biggest diameter and full-load as you can control it for the best. But of course all gun will do, and Marketing Strategy and style entice a person apetite to buy.
As they said, all tools are good but at least there is a better tools to use. A rebuttal to it by others is, Shot Placement, Center Mass are the other factors to be considered regardless of caliber, and.22 can kill. YES that is true.
But if I have a good training in Shot Placement, Center Mass, and having the biggest diameter bullets and hotloaded. I think I have a better tool to use.
Other advantages of the .45 needs not to be expanded upon impact anymore as the diameter is big enough.
But of course it is a matter of preference and convenience as well as to the purpose of the user.
But generally speaking bigger bore, bigger wound let more blood flows, and more blood losses from a bigger hole caused a person death faster, for a "Gun for Blood".
From the above explanations of authors and the actual experiences of many encounters which we cannot write publicly, I made up my mind to buy a .45 for me and still be inherited by my son.
In conclusion, the .45 is the most envied pistols by many who understand well a gun effectiveness. Perhaps the majority of the Police and Military forces if given a preference they will opt for the .45 as ultimate self defense or combat handgun. But convenience to carry because of the weight, collection and other purpose I cannot comment.
Just my own analysis.
[This message has been edited by stdalire (edited October 18, 1999).]
Many of these authors discussed a lot about particular gunmake, calibres durability and many aspect about gun. Most of their conclusion prefer the .45 1911 models. Only they said, it needs for some to have good training because of the kick.
Everybody knows that the 9MM and .45in bullets are the only famous widely used military cartridge for handguns and the 9mm also were used much for rifles and sub- machinegun. It was claimed by the experts that the 1911 models designed by J.M. Browning is the most copied pistols be it in 9MM or .45
The British upgrade their former Webley into .45 or .455 as they have bad experienced with their lower caliber, but only they have un-attractive models of their pistols. The same thing with the US early military forces, they recede from the caliber .38 because their military in the field during the colonization period complaints of the less effectiveness of the .38 in combat. Thus the .45 pistols were issued in great numbers but not enough for the forces so, then they add the .45 revolvers.
To date, I read a lot of the gun school in the internet and their last advise is, choose the bullets with the biggest diameter and full-load as you can control it for the best. But of course all gun will do, and Marketing Strategy and style entice a person apetite to buy.
As they said, all tools are good but at least there is a better tools to use. A rebuttal to it by others is, Shot Placement, Center Mass are the other factors to be considered regardless of caliber, and.22 can kill. YES that is true.
But if I have a good training in Shot Placement, Center Mass, and having the biggest diameter bullets and hotloaded. I think I have a better tool to use.
Other advantages of the .45 needs not to be expanded upon impact anymore as the diameter is big enough.
But of course it is a matter of preference and convenience as well as to the purpose of the user.
But generally speaking bigger bore, bigger wound let more blood flows, and more blood losses from a bigger hole caused a person death faster, for a "Gun for Blood".
From the above explanations of authors and the actual experiences of many encounters which we cannot write publicly, I made up my mind to buy a .45 for me and still be inherited by my son.
In conclusion, the .45 is the most envied pistols by many who understand well a gun effectiveness. Perhaps the majority of the Police and Military forces if given a preference they will opt for the .45 as ultimate self defense or combat handgun. But convenience to carry because of the weight, collection and other purpose I cannot comment.
Just my own analysis.
[This message has been edited by stdalire (edited October 18, 1999).]
James Montes
I've never owned an HK or the other gun you listed... never said I did either. Must have been somone else. I understannd that if you like the way the 1911 functions, then you might like the HK's. I've got a Ruger P-95 decocker and Beretta Jetfire. A few revolvers and that's it.
I never said that the 1911 isn't ACCURATE, or RELIABLE. It's just impractical for my needs. I like the hi-cap compact 1911's though. Always had a little something for that stubby little P-10. I also like the Kimber 14 round Polymer.
You said:
"COL. COOPER (Gunsite), CLINT SMITH (Thunder Ranch), Massad Ayoob (Lethal Force Institute) all proponents of the 1911..."
Bear in mind that those people you mentioned are over 50 years old as well... (I'm still young... >>rubbing it in<< ) Hell, I'm a proponent of 1911-style guns as long as they are reliable, accurate, and most importantly, make the owner feel better. I'll never fork out big money for one though.
Ben
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Besides, I didn't become a "Senior Member" by just sitting around!
"Gun Control Is Being Able To Hit Your Target"
[This message has been edited by Ben (edited October 20, 1999).]
I've never owned an HK or the other gun you listed... never said I did either. Must have been somone else. I understannd that if you like the way the 1911 functions, then you might like the HK's. I've got a Ruger P-95 decocker and Beretta Jetfire. A few revolvers and that's it.
I never said that the 1911 isn't ACCURATE, or RELIABLE. It's just impractical for my needs. I like the hi-cap compact 1911's though. Always had a little something for that stubby little P-10. I also like the Kimber 14 round Polymer.
You said:
"COL. COOPER (Gunsite), CLINT SMITH (Thunder Ranch), Massad Ayoob (Lethal Force Institute) all proponents of the 1911..."
Bear in mind that those people you mentioned are over 50 years old as well... (I'm still young... >>rubbing it in<< ) Hell, I'm a proponent of 1911-style guns as long as they are reliable, accurate, and most importantly, make the owner feel better. I'll never fork out big money for one though.
Ben
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Besides, I didn't become a "Senior Member" by just sitting around!
"Gun Control Is Being Able To Hit Your Target"
[This message has been edited by Ben (edited October 20, 1999).]
James Montes
New member
To: BEN
I stand corrected as to your pistol collection...
It must have been someone else on this site whom stated they have those weapons...
P.S. My smallest 1911 has 4" barrel relatively average compact grip and weighs about 40oz fully loaded...
That may be too heavy for some...
But if it ever needs to be used as a pistol whip that may come in handy...
Appreciate the feed back all the same...
Thanks for the input "stdalire"!
Anyone else out there want to give this one a shot... no pun intended.
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SURE SHOT
I stand corrected as to your pistol collection...
It must have been someone else on this site whom stated they have those weapons...
P.S. My smallest 1911 has 4" barrel relatively average compact grip and weighs about 40oz fully loaded...
That may be too heavy for some...
But if it ever needs to be used as a pistol whip that may come in handy...
Appreciate the feed back all the same...
Thanks for the input "stdalire"!
Anyone else out there want to give this one a shot... no pun intended.
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SURE SHOT
James Montes
New member
to: hklover21
You see what you have started here???
If your out there jump back in this one with some more input so we can somewhat resolve this thing...
I am having a hard time letting go of this one!
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SURE SHOT
You see what you have started here???
If your out there jump back in this one with some more input so we can somewhat resolve this thing...
I am having a hard time letting go of this one!
------------------
SURE SHOT
IMHO I think you should go to a range which rents different manufacturers and models and try them all out. Find out which one feels best in your hands and which one you shoot the best with. Confidence in your pistol is a key factor.
I've shot or owned many different types of handguns mentioned here. Personally I settled with Sig. (To all the 1911 guys: I've never shot a 1911 style pistol, so I can't comment on those) I own three Sigs and love them all. I like the reliability, accuracy, and they are balanced extremely well. The ergonomics of Sigs are excellent also.
But that's just my preference. You might have totally different likings in your pistol. Again, go to a range and rent ones which the people here recommend and see which one fits you.
I've shot or owned many different types of handguns mentioned here. Personally I settled with Sig. (To all the 1911 guys: I've never shot a 1911 style pistol, so I can't comment on those) I own three Sigs and love them all. I like the reliability, accuracy, and they are balanced extremely well. The ergonomics of Sigs are excellent also.
But that's just my preference. You might have totally different likings in your pistol. Again, go to a range and rent ones which the people here recommend and see which one fits you.
Greetings Mr. Montes, I agree with your post
of October 17 very much; whereas you favor
the Sig-Sauer P220A in .45ACP over any other
DA/SA auto loader's. I too, have bet my life
on this weapon since 1988. After all, Sig's
are trustworthy, reliable, durable, and very
accurate !!! It was my first Sig; I liked it
so well that I bought three more: P226 in
9m/m (two-tone w/Siglite night sight's), P228
and a P229 (w/Siglite night sight's). In January of 2000, I am looking to buy more;
possibly a P239 and a P245. Down the road,
I would like to have a P220-Sport !!!
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Ala Dan
of October 17 very much; whereas you favor
the Sig-Sauer P220A in .45ACP over any other
DA/SA auto loader's. I too, have bet my life
on this weapon since 1988. After all, Sig's
are trustworthy, reliable, durable, and very
accurate !!! It was my first Sig; I liked it
so well that I bought three more: P226 in
9m/m (two-tone w/Siglite night sight's), P228
and a P229 (w/Siglite night sight's). In January of 2000, I am looking to buy more;
possibly a P239 and a P245. Down the road,
I would like to have a P220-Sport !!!
------------------
Ala Dan
- Status