Mandatory Skillsets
- Thread starter Gomez
- Start date
George Hill
Staff Alumnus
#1 Safety.
#2 The abilty to think on the feet and know when to use the gun, and when to use the feet.
#2 The abilty to think on the feet and know when to use the gun, and when to use the feet.
I guess what I'm going for here is this; I believe that being able to use the pistol inside of 3M is high priority. Most fights happen in very tight quarters. Traditional "draw & shoot" training doesn't usually address this. I consider it important to incorporate techniques into your fundamental skillsets that allow you to effectively use the pistol at these distances. Safe gunhandling, sight alignment, trigger control, all have to be there before you can take advantage of the more esoteric skills, but there is a significant "survivability" payoff to the esoteric skills.
Having said that, I consider the ability to move safely in a 360-degree environment is mandatory. The ability to engage threats within arms reach is mandatory [ie a retention position]. The ability to rapidly & accurately place hits is mandatory. The knowledge & abilities to run and keep the gun running are mandatory.
Any thoughts?
Having said that, I consider the ability to move safely in a 360-degree environment is mandatory. The ability to engage threats within arms reach is mandatory [ie a retention position]. The ability to rapidly & accurately place hits is mandatory. The knowledge & abilities to run and keep the gun running are mandatory.
Any thoughts?
Bare minimum:
Common sense. Safety.
Build from there.
I look at it this way. The more people CCWing, the better off we are as a society. I think that once people are safe and familiar with their weapon, know the applicable laws, and have an understanding of the use of deadly force, they should carry.
I don't however think that they should stop there. Far from it. I think that anybody who carries a gun owes it to themselves to practice. And not just slow fire, twenty yard, paper punching. But lots of shooting, every kind you can think of. Seek out good training as much as you can afford it. Shoot competition. Any kind of competition. The more lead you put down range, the better.
I think that there is some great advice in the book StressFire. Make sure that something rides on every shot. Don't just screw around when you shoot. Even your plinking sessions should be usefull. Shoot under stress, bet your friends that you can out shoot them. Put some money on it.
As far as some basic skill sets, I've seen a lot of shooters who can't draw and acquire a target with any sort of speed. I think that Gomez has a point. Practice on close and fast a lot. Accurate is great, but accurate and slow is bad.
I've taught quite a few people to shoot. (not a professional, just that everybody I know comes to know me as the neighborhood gunnut, so when they decide to buy a gun, or CCW they talk to me). I've seen far to many new folks get really frustrated as they try to shoot pretty little groups from a bench. Thats not a very realistic indicator of what they are going to face in real life, and it tends to frustrate the shooter, and make them doubt their ability. The more they doubt their ability, the more confidence they will lose.
Enough rambling from me. This is an interesting topic.
Common sense. Safety.
Build from there.
I look at it this way. The more people CCWing, the better off we are as a society. I think that once people are safe and familiar with their weapon, know the applicable laws, and have an understanding of the use of deadly force, they should carry.
I don't however think that they should stop there. Far from it. I think that anybody who carries a gun owes it to themselves to practice. And not just slow fire, twenty yard, paper punching. But lots of shooting, every kind you can think of. Seek out good training as much as you can afford it. Shoot competition. Any kind of competition. The more lead you put down range, the better.
I think that there is some great advice in the book StressFire. Make sure that something rides on every shot. Don't just screw around when you shoot. Even your plinking sessions should be usefull. Shoot under stress, bet your friends that you can out shoot them. Put some money on it.
As far as some basic skill sets, I've seen a lot of shooters who can't draw and acquire a target with any sort of speed. I think that Gomez has a point. Practice on close and fast a lot. Accurate is great, but accurate and slow is bad.
I've taught quite a few people to shoot. (not a professional, just that everybody I know comes to know me as the neighborhood gunnut, so when they decide to buy a gun, or CCW they talk to me). I've seen far to many new folks get really frustrated as they try to shoot pretty little groups from a bench. Thats not a very realistic indicator of what they are going to face in real life, and it tends to frustrate the shooter, and make them doubt their ability. The more they doubt their ability, the more confidence they will lose.
Enough rambling from me. This is an interesting topic.
Correia brings up an interesting point regarding more people CCWing. I ABSOLUTELY agree. I don't want to give the impression that I would be in favor of government mandated "high speed training". That would be counterproductive in the extreme. I simply believe that as honest, concerned gunowners/guncarriers we should train as often, and as realistically, as we can.
On the topic of "draw & shoot", I blame the M.O.S.S. contingent in the training community for the longterm lack of information on this very valuable skill. [Mystikal Order of Secret Stuff] A martial arts instructor of mine once said that "those who only have a little to offer, guard it jealously. While those who have much to offer share willingly." The M.O.S.S. contingent held their "secrets" tightly to their chests and frowned mightily upon those who would share the "secrets".
Nowadays you can pick up books and magazine articles covering the basics of almost every school of thought on how the Drawstroke or Presentation should be done and why it should be done that way. Oh, course it still haelps to have a live body stand next to you and correct/critique what you're doing.
On the topic of "draw & shoot", I blame the M.O.S.S. contingent in the training community for the longterm lack of information on this very valuable skill. [Mystikal Order of Secret Stuff] A martial arts instructor of mine once said that "those who only have a little to offer, guard it jealously. While those who have much to offer share willingly." The M.O.S.S. contingent held their "secrets" tightly to their chests and frowned mightily upon those who would share the "secrets".
Nowadays you can pick up books and magazine articles covering the basics of almost every school of thought on how the Drawstroke or Presentation should be done and why it should be done that way. Oh, course it still haelps to have a live body stand next to you and correct/critique what you're doing.
Safety first.
I notised that when I'm at the range I engage targets with my finger on the triger - sure sound o.k. for sports (IDPA etc.) but has no place in real word scenario, so I intent to practice with my triger finger on the triger guard till i positively acess the target , than two shots - triger finger on the triger guard - accesing hitt target again and then engage/acess onother target (with finger off triger) and so on
How many off you engage targets with triger finger off/on the triger???
I notised that when I'm at the range I engage targets with my finger on the triger - sure sound o.k. for sports (IDPA etc.) but has no place in real word scenario, so I intent to practice with my triger finger on the triger guard till i positively acess the target , than two shots - triger finger on the triger guard - accesing hitt target again and then engage/acess onother target (with finger off triger) and so on
How many off you engage targets with triger finger off/on the triger???
Re: Mandatory skill sets
In my opinion the following list should be considered a minimum set of skills for anyone who carries a gun.
Psychological:
1. Safety.
2. Proper attitude and mindset.
3. Knowledge of applicable laws with regard to the use of force.
Techniques:
1. Drawing from the holster
2. Use of cover and concealment
3. Reloading
4. Low light shooting skills
The above are what I personally believe are the minimum requried skills for anyone who carries or owns a gun for defense. While there are several additional levels of training which can and should probably be built upon this foundation, these are the minimums which every shooter should work to achieve proficiency in.
Brian S. Williams
Williams Associates Protective Services, LLC.
Website
In my opinion the following list should be considered a minimum set of skills for anyone who carries a gun.
Psychological:
1. Safety.
2. Proper attitude and mindset.
3. Knowledge of applicable laws with regard to the use of force.
Techniques:
1. Drawing from the holster
2. Use of cover and concealment
3. Reloading
4. Low light shooting skills
The above are what I personally believe are the minimum requried skills for anyone who carries or owns a gun for defense. While there are several additional levels of training which can and should probably be built upon this foundation, these are the minimums which every shooter should work to achieve proficiency in.
Brian S. Williams
Williams Associates Protective Services, LLC.
Website
huntershooter
Inactive
basic, MEASURED course(s) of fire.
>> What do you consider to be mandatory skillsets for someone carrying a firearm in polite society?
I'm opposed to government *mandatory* courses/skillsets because they allow too much intrusion and, worse, they don't work!
Government/public sector has mandatory skillsets for military and police, and your typical soldier and cop is still a lousy marksman!
I believe positive peer pressure is a better solution. The government doesn't require it, but every self-respecting CCW holds him/herself to some standard because "everybody's doing it."
We should have published, **well-promoted** courses of fire, endorsed and encouraged by the firearms industry. Included with the purchase of every gun-related item would be that company's suggested course(s) of fire, or an incentive to sign up for the shooting activity(s) or organizations they recommend.
Clubs/ranges will host events based on what company and organization supports their activities best. Companies benefit by having local ranges promote their brand through these activities, and knowing their customers are better, safer shooters.
As to specifics, start with something simple. I think anyone considering carrying a handgun on the street should be able to shoot a clean two-target vice prez in, say, 9 seconds or better. With your equipment set up as you would wear it on the street, start facing two targets (IPSC/IDPA/etc) at 7 meters. Engage each with two rounds, reload, and reengage.
We can argue about what course is best, but the idea is to set some kind of minimum standard. Can you toe the line, and handle your firearm (and yourself) under time and peer pressure without looking like a jackass? Yeah, nobody got attacked by a cardboard target, but I've seen self-appointed "real combat shooters" fall apart when put on a clock and facing down paper and steel.
>> What do you consider to be mandatory skillsets for someone carrying a firearm in polite society?
I'm opposed to government *mandatory* courses/skillsets because they allow too much intrusion and, worse, they don't work!
Government/public sector has mandatory skillsets for military and police, and your typical soldier and cop is still a lousy marksman!
I believe positive peer pressure is a better solution. The government doesn't require it, but every self-respecting CCW holds him/herself to some standard because "everybody's doing it."
We should have published, **well-promoted** courses of fire, endorsed and encouraged by the firearms industry. Included with the purchase of every gun-related item would be that company's suggested course(s) of fire, or an incentive to sign up for the shooting activity(s) or organizations they recommend.
Clubs/ranges will host events based on what company and organization supports their activities best. Companies benefit by having local ranges promote their brand through these activities, and knowing their customers are better, safer shooters.
As to specifics, start with something simple. I think anyone considering carrying a handgun on the street should be able to shoot a clean two-target vice prez in, say, 9 seconds or better. With your equipment set up as you would wear it on the street, start facing two targets (IPSC/IDPA/etc) at 7 meters. Engage each with two rounds, reload, and reengage.
We can argue about what course is best, but the idea is to set some kind of minimum standard. Can you toe the line, and handle your firearm (and yourself) under time and peer pressure without looking like a jackass? Yeah, nobody got attacked by a cardboard target, but I've seen self-appointed "real combat shooters" fall apart when put on a clock and facing down paper and steel.
ethernectar
New member
Gomez - That is a BRILLIANT quote, and one that I will use.
matt