Man With A Gun -- What Is Your Next Move?

F

FUD

Moderator
You're in a store minding your own business (and maybe you should continue to mind your own business -- that's what this topic is all about) when you walk past a man wearing a leather vest. What is unusual about this is that you're in southern Florida in the middle of the summer where it's hot & humid with temps in the hi-90's in the shade. As you walk past him, you notice the slide/barrel of a pistol sticking out by an inch or two under the vest -- meaning the guy is carry in a shoulder holster. base on the slide/barrel, it looked like a 1911 but I obviously couldn't tell what make & model. The question is, what do you do next?<OL TYPE=A><LI> Walk up to the individual and politely inform him that he's printing/flashing so that he can take the proper steps not to get into trouble?
<LI> Report the matter to security/LE and hope to collect the $100 reward for turning in someone illegally carrying a firearm?
<LI> Mind your own business and hope that the person isn't about to go on a shooting rampage.</OL>Chances are the armed individual is one of the following:<OL TYPE=1><LI> An off-duty LEO or an undercover LEO, in which case, he might not be too open to having a civilian bring this to his attention (see the related thread posted with regard to this particular topic).
<LI> A BG, who, if approached and told that his firearm is exposed, might act irrationally.
<LI> A fellow gun owner, who may not be licensed by the state to carry a firearm and may also act irraitonally (although, hopefully, not as irrationally as the BG in the previous point) out of fear that he was discovered to be carrying a firearm without a license and the legal issues associated with that. {As a side note, I'm well aware of the issue that we are all granted the right to carry a firearm under the 2nd Amendment but the reality of the matter is that armed citizens who are not licensed to carry a firearm are looked down upon by LE agencies and my Sheriff is actually offering a $100 reward to anyone who turns someone in who carries in public without a license.}
<LI> A fellow law-abidding gun owner who might appreciate being told so that he could take appropriate steps to coorect the problem instead of later being discovered by an Anti or a LEO. Of course, even some law-abidding gun owners might act resentful if told that they are printing/flashing.</OL>I'm just curious how other members would handle this situation?

FUD
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Share what you know & learn what you don't

[This message has been edited by FUD (edited August 21, 2000).]
 
Well, if that guy were me, and I just goofed and allowed my gun to show, I'd be a little more than peturbed that you spilled the beans on me with the manager. Live and let live, and make sure you're not in the same are of the store as he is, just in case.
 
I would approach him non-threateningly (OK, so that's a bit of a stretch for me), and quietly say something like "Say, guy, you're printing. Thought you might like to know before some dumbass freaks out on ya."
 
Anywhere in Flroida you may encounter someone wearing a leather vest in 100 degree heat. They're called bikers. 99% of them are plain old folks. It's just a style thing.

I don't suggest saying anything to this person. If he's legal, how he carries is his own affair. If he's a psychopunk with Rambo delusions, the negative possibilities are too high. The reward your Sheriff offers is no compensation for dead bystanders.

What I do recommend is that you get a good look at him, in case he pulls something and you're needed later as a witness. Stay on high alert level, browse around to get some cover between you and him, and keep track of him.


If he goes into the stick 'em up routine, take cover. If you are carrying, Flroida law says you may use force to stop a violent felony in progress. A guy waving a 1911 and demanding money qualifies. You aren't obligated to intervene, though The wisest people I know on these matters say that if he's just going to take the cash and leave, keep it in the holster.

If nothing goes down, wait him out. Let him transact his business and leave. If you feel like being a really good citizen you might leave just after him and get his license number, in case he decided the place was too crowded and he'd rob the store down the street.
 
I'd tell them. A LEO or a card carrier should appreciate being told so they don't scare the hell out of the sheep. I'd also be on the persons 'off' side...away from the gun so they have to reach away from me and I have some 'play' room...just in case it is a nutcase.
 
Wait until November, then vote for Al Gore. He said he'll make us safe so we won't have to worry about scenario's like this. He'll make everything safe for us, "We the Children.." Ahhh, I feel safer already. ;)

Chris..
 
The problem is that if he's NOT an LEO or CHL holder, and he IS up to something. You let him know that you've seen it, and you may get him going early, and you're standing right next to him. "Excuse me sir, I just wanted to let you know you're pistol is showing." "Well, aren't you just the brainiac...you get to be my hostage, smiley!"
 
Dependin on how I feel bout him at the time...likely would say sumpin like "Son, your muzzle is showin. Might spook the blue hairs." While from safest position obtainable. Probably get a thanks.

Couple years ago had a bluehair go bananas over an empty holster. She hollerin "gun..gun...gun" and pointin at me. Good attitude from the other customers and clerk set her straight.

Sam....iffen he over eighty would omit the "Son"
 
Well does the guy set off any of my warning flags? Other than being armed?

My feelings are that most people that carry in a holster are not real likely to be planning a stop and rob.

Not to mention the guy has done nothing to warrent use of any force at this point.

Unless there is something about the guy that would indicate to me he is likely to be a hostile I would probably just keep an eye on him till I was out of the area. Or if I was just had to know, I would try to start some small talk up with him and bring up the subject of guns, 2nd amendment, ammo, or some such to gage his reaction.

In college I did notice a fellow student was carrying [in a state that basically doesn't give out CCW's]. I just stayed alert and struck up conversation with him later. Found out he was a cop taking classes to hopefully get a different positon in LE that worked better being a single parent [widower] with kids. That guy was always printing though. In my experiance the people that print are always cops...everyone else has a real reason to truly conceal a gun.
 
Sorry, re-read the original post. Leather vest around here indicates more (to me) than just a leather vest, and I don't mean the biker type, because they're normally the nicest guys you run into. I don't know what it is, but a leather vest tells me that this guy is not an average "joe."
 
Condition Orange.
Evaluate and react as needed.
Do not approach with smart ass remarks under ANY circumstances.
DO NOT collect $100.

------------------
galt
Speak Out on the Net http://www.netcitizen.org

[This message has been edited by galt (edited August 21, 2000).]
 
I would probably just say "Hey man, your printing." I would appreciate it if a fellow CCWer would tell that to me if I was walking around with my gun hanging out.

Frontsight, if he was a nut case, I would have to gently persuade him that I wouldn't make a very good hostage. :)
 
Well, you sure don't turn the guy in for this.

I agree ... Condition Orange. And, that's it. I see no point in engaging the guy in conversation. It is probably not an issue anyway, and eventually he'll find out he's printing.

Live and let live. Regards from AZ
 
I have found out that most bikers really are nice people and CCW people are too. As much as I would appreciate being discreetly informed I was printing, I do not think I would do the same for a stranger with a gun. I have several reasons for this. First of all, if he is a BG, then I am dead at his descretion because he may be there for bad reasons, may not be alone, and may be in the middle of a robbery going down discreetly that I just interrupted. If he is an undercover LEO and I tell him he is printing, it could blow his cover (this pertains to FUD's other thread) if he is told in a manner that is not totally private, which a stranger with a gun might not wish you to get them in a totally private situation.

Don't get me wrong, but I learned a long time ago not to argue with people carrying guns and pointing out printing to someone possibly involved in illegal activities and who is unfamiliar to me sounds like an invitation for disaster. I like Frontsight!'s scenario where now I get to be the hostage for helping out this guy.

So neither A, B, or C would be correct answers for me. I would make a mental note of the guy and leave the premises if I suspected that he might, repeat "might" be a naughty boy. Chances are, I would go out to my car and wait until the guy left and then I would continue my shopping.

You know, I am actually surprised by the very nice reactions people posted here, but compared with all of the discussions of being in various conditions of readiness, carrying multiple weapons, paying for improvements to weapons, noting exits, etc., I am somewhat shocked. All of the preparedness and expense of preparation (training, weapons, etc.) goes out the window when people make seemingly little, but potentially very naive mistakes.

It is simply not enough to be a good gunslinger. You have to be a good thinker and have clarity of mind. Being nice and possibly naive will get people killed more quickly than someone with bad or poorly maintained equipment. Our first weapon or tool has to be our heads...and it doesn't have to be as weapon or tool of destruction, but one that sees to it that we protect ourselves and families first.

I want to believe that I am raising my family in a kinder, gentler world, but I really don't think that is the case.
 
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