Man wielding knife abducts, robs women

hksigwalther

New member
This is an article from the (Cleveland) Plain (Yellow) Dealer : http://www.cleveland.com/news/index.ssf?/news/pd/cc09atm1.html

Man wielding butcher knife abducts, robs five women

Saturday, October 07, 2000
By KARIN SCHOLZ
PLAIN DEALER REPORTER

A man with a butcher knife has abducted four women in eight days as they headed toward their cars in downtown parking lots, ordering them to drive around and give him money.
Another woman, believed to be his first attack, was accosted Sept. 27 at E. 30th St. and Cedar Ave. and was ordered to give him money behind an apartment building and was fondled, according to police reports.
Two women picked a suspect out of a photo spread and at least one victim has joined police in searching for him. The women described the knife as being 10 to 12 inches long.
"It was terrifying," one woman, abducted Wednesday, said last night. "He rushes you, making you panicky. All the rules just go out the window ... I just wanted to be back to safety."
One of the women he forced to drive him escaped by slowing down, opening her car door and rolling onto a busy Carnegie Ave.
The first time the man struck, about 10:45 p.m. Sept. 27, was the only time the victim was not near her car, according to police.
A 34-year-old woman from Cleveland was walking on E. 30th St. near Cedar Ave. when the man approached her, holding his hand in his coat as if he had a gun.
He told her to walk behind an apartment building and give him money, according to a police report.
The woman froze in fear, and the suspect punched her in the head about 10 times.
He reached inside her shirt and removed $3 she had in her bra. Then he reached into her pants and fondled her, according to the report. When he started going through her coat, which was on the ground, she fled.
Four days later, a 36-year-old woman from Niles and a 40-year-old woman from Youngstown came to Cleveland to get autographs from Indians players. They parked in a lot on Sumner Court, an alley parallel to Carnegie Ave., near Jacobs Field.
As they returned to their car, they noticed a man peeking around a building. Both women thought he was a lot attendant. As the driver climbed into her car, the man pulled out the butcher knife and pressed it against her thigh.
"Drive or I’m going to kill you," he said, according to the report.
The man directed the women to a driveway on E. 31st St. and ordered them to give him money. Then he ordered the women to expose their breasts and kiss him. Then he fled.
On Wednesday, according to police, the man struck twice. Just after 1 p.m., a 26-year-old Eastlake woman was in a parking lot near her job, at E. 28th St. and Carnegie Ave., when the man grabbed her hair from behind and pressed the butcher knife to her throat. He pushed her into her car, swore at her and said, "Shut up and drive."
He kept the knife at her stomach and as he looked out the passenger side window, she slowed the car to about 20 mph. At E. 24th St. and Carnegie Ave., she opened her door and rolled out.
The car continued to the 2800 block of Carnegie Ave., where it hit a parked car. The man jumped out and ran.
Four hours later, he approached the Strongsville woman as she walked to a parking lot at E. 17th St. and Payne Ave., a block away from the 3rd District Police Headquarters. The woman spotted him, jumped in her car and locked the doors.
But he made a motion as if he had a gun, and she opened the door. He climbed inside and pulled out his butcher knife.
He went through her purse and pulled out $20.
"What else you got?" he asked.
She offered to drive him to an ATM machine. "I was just trying to keep him level-headed," she said. "I wanted him to know he was in control."
He ordered her to go to a bank at E. 97th St. and Euclid Ave., but the drive-through machine was not working. She tried a second machine, and withdrew $200. Then he threatened her family and ordered her to drive him to E. 40th St. and Central Ave., where he got out.
She drove directly to the police station. She said she had thought over and over about her decisions but wouldn’t change anything.
"He kept saying he wouldn’t hurt me if I did what I was told," she said. "I wasn’t going to tell him that I trusted him."
E-mail: kscholz@plaind.com
Phone: (216) 999-4140

Note : bold emphasis by me.

No CCW in Cleveland and OH unless you have a job requiring/needing (subjective) it.

It still surprises and angers me how many people are willing to submit.

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- Ron V.
 
What a bunch of crap responses! You sit on your armchair commando butt and tell someone what to do with a knife in close contact.

Then you say you hope that they were members of MMM. How is that relevant that you want any woman terrorized?

Maybe they will learn from this experience.
It seems that some of them kept their heads
and managed to escape.

You go hand to hand with a butcher knife.

Self-defense training and CCWs are great but to disparage the victims and be angry at them
disgusts me.

I suppose both of you have sufficient training to avoid this without harm.

What crap!

[This message has been edited by EnochGale (edited October 07, 2000).]
 
Hate to say it in view of my initial reaction to the article, but EnochGale has a good point on second-guessing the victims. It was not very bright of them to get into such a situation and to have absolutely no contingency plan BUT once they were in it, they had few good options. Still, cooperating and going places with a BG is likely to get them killed: THAT is why we like to train others to deal with such perps.

What makes me sick is that I live in the metro area of MN which allows no carry permits in practice so my mother has to choose between being more afraid of criminals or more afraid of police. She fears the police more. Some America that turned out to be!
 
I agree,
some America this has turned out to be!!!

Now you are going to have a bunch of people out there trying to ban Knifes.


I have an idea!!!
Lets just ban metal..no guns, no knives, no metal cars to run over people...
but once we ban metal we well have to ban
wood.. you know evil pointy sticks and all.
Then lets ban rocks because I know of a person who used a brick to assualt someone.
After that we will have to ban water because sometimes people drown....
just ban the people banning things..(huh?)
Don't hold people responsible for their actions just hold the tools they choose to use responsible!!
Some basic CQB training and this man would have been down.
Forget tybo or whatever new exercise thing there is, lets start a cqb workout for women etc that may help in real-life threats.
sell it on infomercials and lets all be safe and rich...
 
Oooo, I think I wasn't clear in what I was trying to say. I agree that if I were put into that position, I'm not sure of how I would be able to get pas it.

What I was thinking was that some local, state, and federal governments have gotten us to the point where these women were not able to defend themselves even when they knew something bad as heading in their direction. The blame for this is, ultimately, the public (who are willing to submit to crime) who put the powers to be in their position.

Sorry for any misunderstanding.

------------------
- Ron V.
 
Oh, also, as a minor point, to show to any non aligned readers that firearms are not the only things that are the tools of criminals.

------------------
- Ron V.
 
hksigwalther, don't take what EnochGale says seriously. I think his/her goal is to make as many enemies as possible. People that insult others and then mask their email address are nothing to pay attention to.
 
hey EnochGale, Yes, I do want the MMM women terrorized. Does that make me sick? Maybe so, you just call me sicko for now on. I wish anything upon these people that will make them understand that we need guns to protect ourselves. Yeah, lifes tough, I'm sorry for what these people had to go to (provided they're not part of the resistance). I agree 100% with what preservefreedom said, your just out to make enemies!
 
There was a big article in todays paper about robbery and how you should never NEVER resist any kind of attack - why YOU COULD GET HURT!! Funny thing is, when someone successfully fends of a BG people are at the ready to tell him/her how stupid they were to have resisted. I have less and less patience for pacifists and I get older.
 
Other than the possibility/probability of these women getting out of danger with a CCW the situation that most puzzles me is the one where the victim had reached some protection (her car) but yet compromised her position by doing what the criminal told her to do.

To contrast, a friend of my sister had, a few years ago, broken down in a bad area in Cleveland. Needing to get aid, she left her car to do so. She had shortly found herself being followed by one or more guys. Fortunately, she regularly runs for exercise and proceeded to do just that and the BGs proceeded to chase her. Needless to say, she was outrunning the BGs but she was still in an unfamiliar area. Luckily, a good samaritan had seen what was going down, headed her off, stopped his car, and told her to get in and they went off to the police station.

------------------
- Ron V.
 
Anyone who wishes innocents terrorized has a serious problem.

Do you really want a MMM tortured, raped and murdered so you can chortle about the RKBA?

I do not wish such on my enemies. Our Lord would have something to say to you.

The next time you are in your house of worship, turn your eyes to God and pray:

Oh, Lord - let women from the MMM be hurt and
terrorized to further my belief in the
RKBA.

I have no need to make enemies - but when someone says they want innocents hurt, I respond and if you want to send me nasty e-mails rather than debate me here - sorry.

I find this debate to be morally and philosophical bankrupt if you wish hurt on a fellow human.

I would rather reach the MMM with logic and argument. I take young people shooting and talk the RKBA to them.

I would never say to an anti - woman at work that I hope you are terrorized so that you will change your mind.

If I was harsh in my first statement, I'm sorry for my language - but I stand by the semantics of my statment.
 
I dont think that anyone really wants the MMM'ers to get hurt, but I would not be against having the cra* scare out of a bunch of them. We can talk all the logic we want, but as we seem to se every day it does not work on all people. As for Monday morning quarterbacking the incidents, what is wrong with it? How are we going to learn how to better deal with such unfortunate events if we dont think about them and discuss options? Events like these are great oppurtunities to learn from other people's mistakes why shy away from it? Cause you dont want to hurt someone's feelings??? I'd much rather have my feelings hurt than my wife, kids...

So what are the alternatives to this scenario. Obviously condition orange would have helped these women out, but what could have been done once the abducter was upon them?? Unbuckle his safety belt and get into a wreck? Jump out of the car and hope it goes off a bridge and explodes like in the movies?

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"Liberty is never unalienable; it must be redeemed regularly with the blood of patriots or it always vanishes."
-R.A. Heinlein
 
There are quite a few outfits and books that teach response to such attacks. Some are armed and some are unarmed.

Many antis do have the crap scared out of them and become progun. That's unfortunate but I don't really wish it on anyone.

I prefer they read some stories of past horror and then change their ways.
 
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