Making up for my rifle not liking a specific bullet by finding a good charge weight

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paxamericana

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I could really use some advice by experienced reloaders on this question. I am working on buying a Ruger Hawkeye chambered in 35 Whelen, but there is a potential problem with handloading for it. The range of bullets that I would be using to work up loads for hunting are severely limited, because in my state (California), we are restricted to using non-lead bullets for hunting. The choices of non-lead bullets in .358 caliber are apparently very, very few. Barnes offers copper bullets in that caliber, but there is not much in that caliber beyond what Barnes has. I don't have the rifle yet, but I am trying to plan ahead a bit. Here is my question, which I hope you might be able to help with. It is actually a pretty general question. If it turns out that the rifle does not like the very few non-lead bullets that are available in that caliber, and does not shoot them accurately, is it realistic for me to think that I could make up for that by finding just the right powder and charge?
 
Assuming you have chosen an appropriate powder in the first place, no. That said, I've had very good luck with Barnes bullets. Sometimes I find a bullet that groups a little better, but the only Barnes bullets that didn't work were too long for the twist rate of the barrel.
 
That would probably depend on the twist rate of the Hawkeye barrel. My Ruger M77RS has a 1 in 16" twist as does my Remington M700 Classic. My custom rifle however has a 24" 1 in 14" twist and I get amazing accuracy with the 225 gr. Barnes TSX. I would imagine the newer TTSX 225 gr. would shoot just as well but I haven't tried it. I did work up to 60.4 gr. of RL15 in the custom but the load is a bit too warm for the two commercial rifles. Velocity is 2710 FPS and the load has worked very nicely on elk. I haven't tried the 200 gr. bullet in my .35s yet but my current load has been so good that I haven't seen the need to try something else. I'm not sure but I think Ruger may have switched to a 1 in 12" twist for the .35 Whelen Hawkeye. You might want to check that out.

Also note that when Remington legitimized the .35 Whelen into a factory round, they specified that the maximum allowed pressure be the same as the 30-06 so that the round wouldn't damage their pump and semi-auto rifles. Funny thing is they chamber them in .270 Win. which is loaded to 10KPSI higher than the 30-06 and none of those has hurt the rifles. Seems they made that same mistake with the .280 Rem. as well. However, if you want to experiment along those lines the decision will be up to you.
Paul B.
 
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I'm also in California, behind enemy line. I don't hunt, but I know people who do. Some of them choose to hunt in other states. Don't rule that option.

For terminal ballistics, type of powder and the charge are bracketed. But still you should have 3 handles to pull for accuracy; powder charge, seating depth, and barrel tunning. Too much details to elaborate in a post. You can look up online quite easily how those handle work.

Good hunting!

-TL

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
 
Are you stuck on 35 Whelen? The 35 Whelen only makes sense with 250 gr or heavier lead bullets. If I were limited to lead free bullets there are better options.

Now if that was the rifle I had, and I liked it, I'd use it with copper bullets. But I wouldn't specifically buy one for copper bullets.
 
You can tune with charge weight and or bullet seating depth, I have found the latter to be much more effective. I generally shoot 5-7 groups. I started at factory COL and seat 0.003 deeper each group. I have cut group sizes in half using this method.

Based on my research you will probably want to thoroughly clean and removed the copper from the bore. something about stripping the bore when switching to copper seems to help accuracy. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ULVKvt1MCpg

Also hammer bullets have several options in the .358 size https://hammerbullets.com/product-tag/358/
 
I could really use some advice by experienced reloaders on this question. I am working on buying a Ruger Hawkeye chambered in 35 Whelen, but there is a potential problem with handloading for it. The range of bullets that I would be using to work up loads for hunting are severely limited, because in my state (California), we are restricted to using non-lead bullets for hunting. The choices of non-lead bullets in .358 caliber are apparently very, very few. Barnes offers copper bullets in that caliber, but there is not much in that caliber beyond what Barnes has. I don't have the rifle yet, but I am trying to plan ahead a bit. Here is my question, which I hope you might be able to help with. It is actually a pretty general question. If it turns out that the rifle does not like the very few non-lead bullets that are available in that caliber, and does not shoot them accurately, is it realistic for me to think that I could make up for that by finding just the right powder and charge?
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I have the same rifle--a great one I might add, don't pay attention to the dissers :)--I'll check my load recordsand see if I've tried any barnes, though i generally go sierra with 35's.

addendum--I haven't done any 35 whelen loads with lead-free bullets, though I do have some. My go-to powder is H4895 and that should work well with the Barnes bullets as well I woul think.

The 35 Whelen only makes sense with 250 gr or heavier lead bullets
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Why's that? I've never heard that.

Unless you are a 338-06 fanboy; I've occasionally heard them say that; but not based on ballistic facts.:D
 
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I use the Barnes 200 grain ttsx copper ballistic tips in a .35 whelen for hunting here in California. Maybe I’m just lucky but my rifle shoots them very well. It’s a CVA scout (aka bergara b-13). I’m not sure what your twist rate is and frankly I don’t know the twist rate of my own rifle but perhaps google those and compare them and it’ll at least give you an idea of if they’re the same then that barrel is good for stabilizing that bullet. I’m running them at what is supposed to be 2700 fps in a 22” barrel, my rifle has a 25.5” barrel. I don’t have a chronograph anyhow. It kills pigs on the spot so I’m not too stressed about real time velocity numbers.
 
JMR40 "Are you stuck on 35 Whelen? The 35 Whelen only makes sense with 250 gr or heavier lead bullets. If I were limited to lead free bullets there are better options.

Now if that was the rifle I had, and I liked it, I'd use it with copper bullets. But I wouldn't specifically buy one for copper bullets."

I most strongly disagree with you on this. I run the 225 gr. Barnes TSX in my custom Mauser at 2710 FPS and I guarantee you they will pass through an elk from exhaust pipe to appetite.

The OP is restricted to monometal bullets and wants a .35 Whelen. A good choice IMHO. I don't know if his choice of rifle will be friendly using a load at the level I load mine but if it does it'll work on anything within the United States and most of the world. I've done six elk hunts with the Whelen and 225 gr. TSX including one running straight away. I've never recovered one of those Barnes bullets and that included the rear end shot. Average velocity for the shots on elk, 2710FPS at the muzzle. I would have to drop it down to around 2600 FPS for use in my two other Whelen chambered rifles.

I have three rifles chambered to the Whelen and while two don't shoot quite as well in those two, accuracy is still more than adequate with the TSX. I never cared for the 200 gr. bullets in the Whelen but like the Nosler Partition and Accubond in the 225 gr. weight in the two rifles. I get right around 2600 FPS with them in those rifles.
Paul B.
 
yeah i would agree that the twist rate would be the only 'question' if it twists them fast enough to stabilize them, developing a load should be a cake walk.
 
I looked at Barnes specs for their 35 bullets, they don't seem to have special requirements for faster twist rates, which is a bit unusual since I've found most monolithic bullets tend to have faster twist rate requirements than jacketed counterparts in the same weight range. That could be because of the multiple bearing bands--I don't know. I tried a few in my hawkeye but they did not group well. However, I bought mine heavily used condition and the barrel is already pretty well shot-out.
 
1:14 is a common twist for 35 bore rounds. That's what E. R Shaw runs in all their 35 barrels. If those Barnes 200s and 225s didn't work at that twist, they wouldn't sell very many.
 
This is fairly typical for what I get when using 225 gamekings and H4895 off a completely clean bore in my model 77 in 35 whelen. the bore is basically smoothed down after countless shots with intersecting button chatter lines every .25 inches or so. between those lines copper builds up very fast--usually in just a few shots it will start to cause significant changes in point of impacts (heating of the sporter barrel probably contributes to this as well). I could just let the bore totally fill in with copper until it reaches some kind of equilibrium in impacts--but I've found that it just won't work for very long and shot dispersion quickly becomes huge. It will then take a day or more to get the bore completely clean. The only reasonable solution I've found (other than getting a rebarrel) is to keep the bore totally clean and settle for just the first few shots grouping closely as they did here at 158 yards. When this "last gasp" at accuracy finally goes away it will be time for the rebarrel.

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I tried both the 200 gr ttsx and 200 gr tsx but had poor results with both--but that was most likely a result of my barrel being almost shot-out and the higher density of the all-copper bullet. I took a look at the ballistics numbers in QL for the 2 bullets driven at reasonable velocities and the for a bullet driven at 2,700+ fps (doable without excessively high pressures) the bullet leaves the muzzle with far over 3,000 ft lbs of kinetic energy. Moreover, the felt recoil is remarkably less than that of the 225 gamekings I shot in the picture above.
 

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