Magazine Tune-up
- Thread starter YTL424
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Theohazard
New member
I've never heard of "tuning" a magazine. I'm pretty sure there's no such thing.
If a magazine isn't working properly, you can try to fix it. Springs and followers can be replaced and bent feed lips can be bent back into place, but if a magazine is working properly then there's no reason to mess with it.
If a magazine isn't working properly, you can try to fix it. Springs and followers can be replaced and bent feed lips can be bent back into place, but if a magazine is working properly then there's no reason to mess with it.
A working magazine should not be "tuned", "adjusted" or otherwise altered.
If a magazine doesn't work and it's not the springs or followers then replace the magazine.
There are some folks out there who have the knowledge, skill and tools to be able to adjust the feedlips on a non-functional magazine and restore it to function, but for most gun owners the following is true:
Bending feedlips = ruined magazine
If a magazine doesn't work and it's not the springs or followers then replace the magazine.
There are some folks out there who have the knowledge, skill and tools to be able to adjust the feedlips on a non-functional magazine and restore it to function, but for most gun owners the following is true:
Bending feedlips = ruined magazine
Theohazard
New member
Most of the time, yes. But I've had AR mags that stopped working properly due to bent feed lips, and then they worked fine once the feed lips were bent back into place. Though I don't recommend using mags like this for anything but training.JohnKSa said:
Kreyzhorse
New member
+1.
I've never heard of tuning a mag either but other basic maintenance I would be suspect of tuning instructions found on the web.
madcratebuilder
New member
Maintenance yes, tuning NO. Mags are expendable IMHO, if the lips bend then I may salvage the follower, spring and floor plate.
turkeestalker
New member
+2
I own a .380 that I picked up for a song because the previous owner altered the magazine feed lips in an attempt to cure an occasional hiccup. He essentially turned it into a non-functioning pistol and in his frustration, sold it to me for a third of what he had paid for it.
Popped in a magazine from one just like it that I already owned and viola!
Scavenged his spring, follower, and floor plate, then threw the body in the trash.
I know the IPSC competitors will use a doublestack 1911, or 2011 comp gun, and mag tuning or tweaking is something that is needed for most of these guns. Especially when you are running 20+ rounds of 9, 40, or 38 super.
Many 2011 comp pistol owners will often have mags specifically "tuned" for each gun.
Getting doublestack comp mags to work in a 2011 comp gun can be a science project for the uninitiated. Way over my head. I have replacement spring & follower kits for my 47D and ETM Wilson mags, so that is the extent of my mag "tuning".
Many 2011 comp pistol owners will often have mags specifically "tuned" for each gun.
Getting doublestack comp mags to work in a 2011 comp gun can be a science project for the uninitiated. Way over my head. I have replacement spring & follower kits for my 47D and ETM Wilson mags, so that is the extent of my mag "tuning".
g.willikers
New member
Mags can be "tuned" for a specific round.
Bullet choice, over all cartridge length, and such might require it for proper feeding.
Especially if the rounds differ very much from factory specs for some reason.
Like maybe 9mm Major for open class pistols, for example.
Bullet choice, over all cartridge length, and such might require it for proper feeding.
Especially if the rounds differ very much from factory specs for some reason.
Like maybe 9mm Major for open class pistols, for example.
buckhorn_cortez
New member
Magazines for pistols like Glock, SIG, FN, S&W, HK, XD(m), Walther, any 1911 and most other pistols shouldn't need tuning.
An STI 2011? Now that's a whole different story. I just got done tuning nine of them and every single magazine needed some type of adjustment to work with 9mm, 147 grain (flat meplat) bullets.
So, there are some magazines that need tuning, even new ones directly from the manufacturer.
buckhorn_cortez
New member
Nah. Not that hard. Once you understand the problems with the STI 2011 magazines, it's not the difficult to diagnose and fix the problems if you own calipers, Dawson 2011 mag tuning kit, brass hammer(s), vise, and a pair of flat nose equipment assembly pliers. It also helps to have a variety of small files.
The main problems with them are: the feed lips are not tapered correctly, the follower has burrs and mold parting lines, and sometimes the tubes are slightly bulged from forming the single stack neck on the magazine.
You make some measurements on the feed lips and magazine tube and correct the inconsistencies, de-burr the follower, and check the welded seam on the tube interior for small bumps that haven't been ground properly and dress those flat. Then check the follower to make sure it's not jamming at the top of the tube and it's able to freely travel to the top - you're done.
You can see how they form the feed lips. It's apparent there's a mandrel and a tool comes down and pushes on the metal to roll the feed lips over the mandrel.
When you look closely at the magazine, you'll see a line indented into the metal just below the feed lip where the tool has pushed on the tube to bend the feed lips.
It is obvious that some of the tubes have shifted on the mandrel or the tool did not contact the tube evenly as the line indented into the tube will not be the same depth for the length of the feed lip. Those are the magazines that will have the feed lips that need the most adjustment. When you have a magazine with a line that is the same depth for the length of the feed lip - very little adjustment required.
It takes about 10-30 minutes per magazine depending upon the amount of work that needs to be done.
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Walt Sherrill
New member
About the ONLY thing that can (or should) be done to "tune" a previously properly-functioning magazine is to replace the springs, if they seem weak (allowing nose dives, etc.) or if the follower shows damage (pretty rare.)
You can clean the mag tubes if they are dirty or junky inside. Lubricating them is generally something to be avoided, but wiping them down internally with a slightly oil-dampend or silicon-dampend rag is a possiblity. Youd don't want any fluid that can collect material inside the mag tube, so wiping it dry can be a good final step -- a light coating will likely remain.
If the feed lips get damaged, some mag metal is soft enough they can be be bent back into position -- but often the metal (which is made to be strong and avoid easy bending) will break... it can be brittle. Opening or closing the GAP is about the best you can hope for -- and compare the problem mag to a known good one.
Replacing a non-functioning mag is expensive, and springs and followers are not that expensive. Wiping down the inside (and the spring) with a slightly dampened oil/silicon cloth is cheap, as is wiping it out afterwards.
You can clean the mag tubes if they are dirty or junky inside. Lubricating them is generally something to be avoided, but wiping them down internally with a slightly oil-dampend or silicon-dampend rag is a possiblity. Youd don't want any fluid that can collect material inside the mag tube, so wiping it dry can be a good final step -- a light coating will likely remain.
If the feed lips get damaged, some mag metal is soft enough they can be be bent back into position -- but often the metal (which is made to be strong and avoid easy bending) will break... it can be brittle. Opening or closing the GAP is about the best you can hope for -- and compare the problem mag to a known good one.
Replacing a non-functioning mag is expensive, and springs and followers are not that expensive. Wiping down the inside (and the spring) with a slightly dampened oil/silicon cloth is cheap, as is wiping it out afterwards.
Theohazard
New member
To the guys talking about tuning competition magazines: Are you referring to the process of getting them to work properly, or are you talking about taking a mag that already works fine and "tuning" it to work better?
To me, the term "tuning" refers to making something work better. But, for the most part, magazines either work properly or they don't: You either have a mag that works and you leave it alone, or you have a mag that doesn't work and you can try to fix it.
So when you're talking about "tuning" a 2011 magazine, it sounds to me like you're just talking about fixing a mag that's not working properly. But I'm not a competitive shooter and I don't have any experience with those types of guns, so please correct me if I'm wrong.
To me, the term "tuning" refers to making something work better. But, for the most part, magazines either work properly or they don't: You either have a mag that works and you leave it alone, or you have a mag that doesn't work and you can try to fix it.
So when you're talking about "tuning" a 2011 magazine, it sounds to me like you're just talking about fixing a mag that's not working properly. But I'm not a competitive shooter and I don't have any experience with those types of guns, so please correct me if I'm wrong.
polyphemus
New member
OP asks a specific question here,maybe the folks who tune their magazines can answer and give guidelines as to how to do it.
Would cutting springs qualify as tuning. I bought a Rem R1 Enhanced (new) and needed mags. I bought 4, I think from Midway. The gun shoots great. Just needed more mags.
The mags wouldn't load with 8 rounds but seemed to work fine when loaded to 7 rds.
I cut one coil off the mag spring on each mag and they seem to work fine. Guys I shoot with said I should throw them out. They work fine so I am using them.
No doubt lots of opinions, all of which are appreciated, but of course we are not obligated to accept them
The mags wouldn't load with 8 rounds but seemed to work fine when loaded to 7 rds.
I cut one coil off the mag spring on each mag and they seem to work fine. Guys I shoot with said I should throw them out. They work fine so I am using them.
No doubt lots of opinions, all of which are appreciated, but of course we are not obligated to accept them
Walt Sherrill
New member
YTL424 said:
That's not tuning a mag.
Re: your friends... I've never understood why folks throw out new mags that don't work right without first trying to fix them or figure out WHY they don't work right. It might have been worth your while calling Remington customer service and see what they had top say before cutting those springs.
Were the mags 8-round mags? Some guns come with 7-round mags. (I would expect them to be 8-rounders, but I don't know how Remington does it.) If you're trying to load 8-rounds in a 7-round mag, cutting the coil might give you a little extra space, if space was needed.
Cutting a coil, in effect, reduces the power of the spring.
1) If the mag was designed to work with 7 rounds rather than 8, you may need that extra coil later in the mag's life.
2) Springs also take a set (shorten, by design) with early use. Using them or letting them set as fully loaded as possible will accelerate that "break-in/taking a set" process.
You may be alright with having cut the springs, or you may end up with springs that, once broken in and used for a while, that will eventually lose their ability to lift the final round properly (the spring may not be long enough!)
Having spare springs on hand isn't a bad idea, either. Order some new springs from Wolff, and keep them around. If you start to have problems, install the new ones, loaded as fully as you can, and leave them that way for a while... then try them again.
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Amen to that.
Some pistol mags, especially those intended for serious competition,
work just fine with their respective pistols, although
when you start looking at milliseconds, any hiccup can loose you a tourny.
Especially in the .22 category. This is where mag tuning started...
Old Hi-Standard pistols were very precise, yet finicky as heck with their mags...
you would literally set (tuneup) each mag for a specific ammunition...
as case lengths varied within manufacturers, and so did the bullets.
There's also some nifty writeups on Hi-Standard sites on how to do this...
some typed-up 70+ years ago, photocopied & passed down over the ages.
That being said, once you learned how to tuneup Hi-Standard mags,
any other mag issued by any other maker could easily be fixed.
All those stupid fools who tossed fussy 1911/etc mags at the range,
well, ya dig 'em out, fiddle with 'em a bit, and you have WORKING mags,
which can then be used for your own guns, or resold via GB/Eburp/etc...
Hey, thanks for all the cash!!
buckhorn_cortez
New member
For a 2011 magazine, taking a magazine that may have an intermittent or repeatable malfunction and making it work reliably with any type of bullet weight and design.
But, after you get the magazine tuned to work, then you can do more modifications to add 1 or 2 additional round capacity to it by changing the follower, spring, and base pad. The magazine is still legal because the overall length has not been changed.
The basic reliability functions that need to be addressed are as follows:
The feed lip problem is the biggest problem on the 2011 magazines. The feed lips should be narrower (closer together) at the base of the bullet and wider (further apart) where the the round feeds into the barrel. Most of the magazines from the manufacturer have that taper reversed.
If they're not tapered correctly, you can have feeding problems because the cartridges will oriented slightly nose down, caused by the feed lips being closer together at the front.
There is a secondary problem associated with the feed lips not being spread evenly open from the center of the magazine. This can cause a slight skew to the direction of the round in the horizontal direction.
With a round nose, FMJ the round will typically feed okay MOST of the time. However, you have to factor in that the rounds are in a double stack magazine that reduces to a single stack for about 3-4 rounds below the feed lips.
As the rounds move up the magazine they jog back-and-forth. Depending upon how they were loaded in the magazine and how they've moved up the tube, the distance from the base of the bullet to the back of the magazine can vary a little bit.
In the case of 9mm, 147 grain rounds with a flat on the nose, if the round is fed in a nose down orientation because of the feed lips being narrower at the front, the round can be turned base up because the edge of the bullet where the ogive meets the flat meplat catches on the feed ramp and the bullet noses down, and flips base up out of the magazine.
Once you have the feed lip taper corrected, all of those feeding problems go away because the round will be oriented very slightly nose up - and is actually high enough in the magazine that it is literally aimed right at the center of the barrel.
If the feed lips are not equally spread from the center of the magazine, the round can be fed off-axis in a horizontal direction and catch the edge of the barrel jamming the slide open.
All the orientation problems associated with the feed lips are easy to see with a round in the magazine and the slide locked open. It's just really obvious that the round is not oriented correctly, and it's easy to see what needs to be corrected.
There can also be a problem with the follower not going high enough in the tube and causing the slide to not lock open. That is addressed with deburring and smoothing the follower and some filing on the inside of the magazine to get the weld bead remnants flattened.
Once you have the magazine 100% reliable with the stock follower, spring, and magazine base then you can substitute the after market parts to increase capacity and do a few additional tweaks (if needed) to ensure total reliability.
The magazines I worked on earlier this week were used this morning in a competition and all worked 100% - even after being dropped out of the gun into sand / dirt and then reloaded for the next stage.
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