Question--is it necessary or advisable to rotate magazines, i.e. periodically leave your mags empty? I've been to do it and I've been told the new metals used to make magazine springs will not be affected by leaving the mag full all the time. Does it depend on the gun--Glock, Colt 1911, Kimber, H&K, Keltec? Thanks for the help.
Magazine rotation?
- Thread starter ddtlaw
- Start date
I was told that it is the compression and decompression of springs that causes them to weaken... not long periods of time in one position. I'm no expert so take that with a grain of salt.
I have shot 1911 mags that were loaded since WWII and they worked (and still work) perfectly. Maybe they were just really good mags
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I have shot 1911 mags that were loaded since WWII and they worked (and still work) perfectly. Maybe they were just really good mags
.We have discussed and cussed this question a buncha times. I would suggest doing a search of all the forums at TFL,using SPRINGS or MAGAZINES as the subject.
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1911's forever, or at least until they come up with a hand held electronic rail gun.
Ne Conjuge Nobiscum
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1911's forever, or at least until they come up with a hand held electronic rail gun.
Ne Conjuge Nobiscum
Ah. The eternal debate. Here's what was 'decided' before:
A lot of people rotate their mags religiously. Quite a few rotate them periodically. Quite a few more never rotate their mags.
Guess what? malfunctions related to spring strength seemed equally rare in all three conditions, though certainly there is no science involved in obtaining that figure.
CONCLUSION: Don't worry about it. However, if it makes you feel better, whatever way you do it is the 'right' way.
Mike
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"A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects." -Robert Heinlein
A lot of people rotate their mags religiously. Quite a few rotate them periodically. Quite a few more never rotate their mags.
Guess what? malfunctions related to spring strength seemed equally rare in all three conditions, though certainly there is no science involved in obtaining that figure.
CONCLUSION: Don't worry about it. However, if it makes you feel better, whatever way you do it is the 'right' way.
Mike
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"A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects." -Robert Heinlein
Every officer in my agency is issued 3 mags with the weapon and they are loaded to capacity all the time. The only time we unload them is when we qualify, or when we practice on our own. I have carried my 3 P226 mags that way for 9 years now and have never had any stoppages with the gun let alone magazine related problems. I am not aware of any agency in AZ that issues more than 3 mags to their officers.
I asked this same question to a group of metalurgists and metalworkers. They said that if you want a spring to wear out, then work the spring (compress/decompress). They said leaving it compressed is no worse then leaving it at rest, that cycling the spring is what wears it out. They also said if you REALLY want to wear a spring out fast, overcompress it. The best bet is to load you mags two rounds less than full and leave them, or not load your mags at all.
Country Boy
New member
This doesn't really address the topic, but it is related... somehow... I hope...
The magazine is the most vulnerable part of any firearm, IMO. Whether we rotate, don't rotate, or purify our mags with a ceremony involving chicken bones and tea leaves, they are still the most vulnerable part of the gun. That is one reason why people carry a spare magazine, in case of mag failure.
The magazine is the most vulnerable part of any firearm, IMO. Whether we rotate, don't rotate, or purify our mags with a ceremony involving chicken bones and tea leaves, they are still the most vulnerable part of the gun. That is one reason why people carry a spare magazine, in case of mag failure.
Country Boy
New member
As for what I do, my carry magazines are full and rotated every couple months. Any non-carry mags that I have loaded are usually loaded down one or two rounds.
Thanks for the responses. I guess the answer to my question is "personal preference." I did learn something important from Country Boy. I've always thought the reason for carrying an extra mag was to have more ammo to throw at the BG. However, as Country Boy pointed out, the best reason to have an extra mag is if your primary mag fails, you will have something to throw at the BG besides your gun. BTW, Jim V, next time I'll do a search before I post a question. I'm new at this but I'm learning. DDT
To answer Doctorj's question, I am a LEO and I'll summarize all of the training we recieved in magazine care/maintenance (beyond how to clean them) in the following paragraph:
There it is. If you need any further clarification, feel free to ask.
Mike
PS I buy the argument that cycling the mag springs will wear them out- I'm no metallurgist but it makes inuitive sense to me...but I think using that as an argument to NOT rotate is questionable. I put several 100 rounds per week through my gun. This ammounts to many multiple compression/release cycles. What is one more going to do? Especially if it takes a mag 'out of rotation' for a week or so, resulting in a net *decrease* in compression/release cycles. I'm not advising rotation (generally speaking I don't do it), but don't worry about stopping it, either
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"A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects." -Robert Heinlein
[This message has been edited by Coronach (edited September 28, 2000).]
[This message has been edited by Coronach (edited September 28, 2000).]
There it is. If you need any further clarification, feel free to ask.
Mike
PS I buy the argument that cycling the mag springs will wear them out- I'm no metallurgist but it makes inuitive sense to me...but I think using that as an argument to NOT rotate is questionable. I put several 100 rounds per week through my gun. This ammounts to many multiple compression/release cycles. What is one more going to do? Especially if it takes a mag 'out of rotation' for a week or so, resulting in a net *decrease* in compression/release cycles. I'm not advising rotation (generally speaking I don't do it), but don't worry about stopping it, either
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"A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects." -Robert Heinlein
[This message has been edited by Coronach (edited September 28, 2000).]
[This message has been edited by Coronach (edited September 28, 2000).]
Only mag springs I have every worn out and replaced were my 8 shot Chip McCormic mags I got back in 1990 (plus or minus 1 year). Back then I was heavy into IPSC and was shooting about 800 rounds per week and was using 7 mags constantly. After about 3 years the springs lost their strength to the point of misfeeding the last round once in a while. After the springs were replaced they worked perfectly again. Few years later I accidently left 2 of those mags loaded with 8 rounds for almost 4 years by accident but they still work perfectly. I guess constantly "work" the springs will degrade the springs more than keeping them loaded. Knowing this I still rotate my mags every 2-3 months. It makes me feel better.
ddtlaw, I should have checked your profile and seen that you were a FNG (welcome to the forum BTW) and then I would have known that you had missed all our prior discussions on the subject. There are several topics that crop up time and time again: springs, best magazines, use of brake cleaner/carb cleaner, full length guide rods, and shok buffs to name just a few.
Sometimes a search will supply answers, more answers than one really wants, faster than posting the question would.
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1911's forever, or at least until they come up with a hand held electronic rail gun.
Ne Conjuge Nobiscum
Sometimes a search will supply answers, more answers than one really wants, faster than posting the question would.
------------------
1911's forever, or at least until they come up with a hand held electronic rail gun.
Ne Conjuge Nobiscum
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BB: ... The best bet is to load you mags two rounds less than full ...[/quote]My compact models are loaded with one round less than they are designed for. My full-size pistols are loaded with two rounds less than what they can hold and my hi-caps are loaded with three rounds less than what they can hold. Comments? Flames?
In a properly designed and manufactured magazine, I see no reason to load it under it's capacity. Notice the word "properly".
As far as springs weakening if they're left compressed, you should really start worrying about your car's valve springs. Many cars have 10-12 year old valve springs, and at least half of them have been compressed anytime the car is not running! I think the principal reason that springs in fully loaded magazines take a "set" is lousy springs.
As far as springs weakening if they're left compressed, you should really start worrying about your car's valve springs. Many cars have 10-12 year old valve springs, and at least half of them have been compressed anytime the car is not running! I think the principal reason that springs in fully loaded magazines take a "set" is lousy springs.
my own experience only:
replace the original weak springs in Glock or Para-ord pistols with extra power wolff springs then leave it loaded during everyday carry mode, make sure you practice, in practice when you notice some problems, correct it, (mecgar magazines springs is really a weak one)
replace the original weak springs in Glock or Para-ord pistols with extra power wolff springs then leave it loaded during everyday carry mode, make sure you practice, in practice when you notice some problems, correct it, (mecgar magazines springs is really a weak one)