Magazine Change?

P

Peepsite

New member
What is the most efficient method to change a magazine and retain the one comming from the autoloader? I have an S&W 4566, so it is an "American" mag release. Is it faster to retain the spent mag in the left hand (shooting right handed), or put it away before re-engaging the target?

I know they have this option in IDPA and have practiced retaining the mag between my pinky and ring finger, and have also tried pulling the fresh mag between the pinky and ring finger and dumping the spent mag in my palm, grabbing it with the thumb and index finger. Yo, neither way felt completely reliable and I'd like to know the most efficient, recommended way.
 
I dunno, keep practicing I guess, I hope you're only using this for IDPA ("Excuse me Mr. Badguy while I retain my nearly empty mag in my pajama pocket") What a waste! Being left handed my trigger finger is out of the guard on the mag release as the new mag is going in as the old mag falls to the ground. I think with IDPA rules you can drop the mag from slidelock, for me that would be faster than retaining the mag. Of course someone who shoots IDPA a lot tells me that dropping the mag from a locked and empty gun is A Ok, but if you are good enough to count your shots and drop an empty mag with one still in the pipe that is not ok. :confused: In short view all the gun games critically and analyze what you can real world use and discard the rest. Unless of course you are attacked by an army of cardboard men. I fail to see the tactical advantage of retaining a mag with one round in it, If you've used all your mags you are either:

A: Dead
B: Have shot enough people that you should have plenty of their guns to pick up.
 
it is against the rules in IDPA to drop a mag with any rounds left in it, some courses of fire dictate a tactical reload (exchanging a partial mag for a full one AND retaining the paritial for possible later use), speed reloads are acceptable (dropping an empty to the floor for a fresh one)

for a tactical load bring the fresh mag to the still loaded pistol, pop the partial, grab it with the same hand holding the fresh one, insert the fresh one, stow the partial where ever convienence dictates, all preferably while behind cover during a lull in the "action"
 
AndaBeer:

Speed reloads -- as defined by the IDPA rule book -- are not okay.

(Speed reload as they define it is when a reload is undertaken with a round in the chamber and the slide closed.) Start with 10+1, shoot ten and then reload, and you get a FAILURE TO DO RIGHT penalty, if they catch you. (That's a big 20 second penalty.)

A slide lock reload IS okay, as are the "reload with retention" and "tactical" reload.
 
Generally, the magazine with the most ammo is considered to be the one that should be the most secure while reloading, especially under stress when fine motor skills go down. It usually is recommended that the spent mag go between the pinky and the ring finger, with the fresh mag in the hand.

Depending on the range to the target, I may not even store the mag before shooting. I may shoot one handed or hold the mag in my left hand and try to grip the gun that way. Personally, in the real world, I seriously doubt that I am going to worry about retaining a partially empty magazine.
 
guess my terminogy is off as speed reload to me implies slide lock, tac load is any mag change with retension while the pistol is in battery

but i do see the gap in logic of my previous post
 
I agree with Navy Joe, but if you're gonna shoot IDPA, then you gotta follow the rule. Same in IPSC/SASS/NRA BULLSEYE, etc., etc.

For the record, I think it's a stupid rule.

In a real life gunfight, if the situation is such that you've fired all but one or two rounds, and you have a momentary halt in the fight, DROP THAT NEAR EMPTY MAG ON THE GROUND and immediately put a fresh, fully loaded mag in the pistol!!!!!!!
That fresh mag should be already seated by the time the old mag hits the ground. That's what you should practice.

Don't try fumbling around with catching the old mag with your weak hand... which is already holding a fresh mag, and then do some juggler's switcheroo to get the fresh mag in the pistol. You're under a tremendous amount of stress. Suppose, while tiddling around with the old mag, you DROP your fresh mag on the ground??! You gonna start looking around for it?? NO!!! You must keep your eyes on the object(s) of danger.

Get that pistol fully loaded and be ready to start fighting again, if it's necessary! Don't worry about your old mag hitting the dirt or concrete. Get! Back! In! The! Fight! with a fully loaded pistol!

FWIW. J.B.
 
As far as IDPA is concerned, if you want to win then follow their dumb rules. If you want to develop habbits that may save your life some day, take the penalty.

If you have to reload during a gunfight, for goodness sake recognize the number one priority is getting the gun reloaded. Drop the stupid magazine and get the new one in. If you live you can pick up the dropped one later.

The only time the so called "tactical reload" is rational is either when you are under cover, or when the fight is over so you can leave the area with a loaded gun.
 
That's one big thing that so far I like about IPSC, once I push the mag release the next time I think about that mag is when another shooter hands it to me after the course of fire, really good reload training, especially shooting L10. If it's a field course all my mags have 1 or no rounds in them when dropped, actually found that keeping count is pretty easy. If there are set boxes, I'll reload when I move, which I think makes real world sense too, why not reload while running for cover or from target instead of once you get to cover ala IDPA?
 
It's a good idea to practice to obey all the rules, whether you agree with them or not. Make sure you do everything by the rulebook, and practice until you do it instinctively. Got that?

Of course, if you ever really need the gun and you instinctively obey the rules, somebody who never heard of the da**ed rules will blow your silly head off!

Jim
 
Re: slavishly following the rules...

I view the IDPA tactical reload as something you do in matches, and not something you'd likely do in the real world ...

But, that said, I can see where you might want to have a full mag in our gun before you round a "blind" corner, etc. -- with who knows what threat behind it. In that case, a tactical reload or a "reload with retention" makes more sense than dropping and ignoring the mag (with rounds in it) and replacing it with a fresh mag.

Just because you learn to hop on one foot very proficiently doesn't mean you'll hop on one foot when you need to run with both feet.
 
not advocating one way or another, but try this...

with gun in right hand,
1. fresh mag drawn in left hand with
2. gun between thumb and middle finger, with index finger along the leading edge
3. catch/extract ejected mag between middle finger and ring finger
4. slide in fresh mag

good luck
 
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