Mag springs?!

J

Johnny Rad

New member
WHOA?! I just popped for two NIW mags and just happened to take one of them apart for no reason. As things go, I wasn't exactly sure how to orient the mag bits before I put it back together so I carefully took apart one of my older mags.

The new mag's spring is definitely longer than the springs in my year old mags. That being said, the old mag has NEVER (knock on wood) given me an ounce of trouble. However, I do have my pistol loaded 24x7, but alternate mags every 3-4 weeks - leaving the unused mags empty, of course.

* Has anyone else noticed their springs getting shorter over time and not experience or suspect mag related failures? Maybe the mag spring is designed to lose x% of its height within the first little while still maintaining its functionality .. or is this dreaming?!

I know we've argued whether or not mag springs lose their memory and I don't want to open that can of worms - but, maybe its time again? Regardless, that's why I've choosen to alternate mags and leave the unused ones empty.

YOUR THOUGHTS?!
 
Were these magazines all made by the same manufacturer?
 
First, all springs compress under load, and never _quite_ return to their original shape, until they have "set". The "set" on a well made, normal spring allows it to meet the desired spec, and go on at that level through a long service life. The "set" on a bad spring (rare, but they are out there) is usually noticeable as an out of normal coil, or a dead section when under compression.

All that having been said, you can prolong spring life by downloading one round. You can safely load them full and keep them full for long periods of time. The savings in spring life by downloading and the "stress" of keeping them fully loaded are negligible. Chances are your kids _might_ see one of your springs fail long after you are gone.

Springs are like anything else mechanical - the more you use them, the faster they wear, and wear on a mag spring is loading and unloading, and resulting rub wear against the mag walls. They are designed for this. Shoot. Have fun. Worry about real stuff :)
 
PreserveFreedom: The mags are all MecGar.

Walosi: I appreicate your insight. As you sugest, I do download my mags when they're in the gun for long periods of time. It sounds like my older mag springs have taken a set because I'm not [knocking on wood again] having any trouble with them! It'll be interesting to compare the "new" and "old" mag springs in another 6 months.

P.S. I really like the new TFL format!
 
I have often thought about mag springs going bad, especially with high caps. I am really considering buying a spare Wolf spring for each high cap mag just in case I need it down the road. It's just like buying insurance. :)
 
I agree with wanting to buy a replacement spring or three because it'd be a real shame (and an expensive one at that!) to end up with an unreliable high-cap mag. I'm off to check out Wolff and my manufacturer's website...
 
Magazine springs taking a "set"......

About 10 years ago, an engineer did a study on this subject and wrote it up in one of the magazines.

As I recall, he recommended downloading the staggered-column magazines by 10% - 2 rounds in a 15 to 20 round magazine.

He personally had two Glock 17 magazines fail to function after leaving them fully loaded for 3 months.

He also observed that the single column magazine springs were less affected....... I remember hearing about a 1911-A1 magazine that was left loaded in an attic right after WWII, and it fired the 7 loaded rounds perfectly after it was found!

If someone still has this article, please speak-up.

Thanks,

Mk.IV
 
I recall an article re mag springs in the American Handgunner several years back, and it may be the same one. They interviewed an independent spring metalurgist, and reps from Wolff. That (or my memories of it) and a couple of similar articles since are my "source of great wisdom".

When my grandfather's will distribution was made, I was given a trunk that contained several gov't issue 1911 mags, fully loaded, that had been stored for a known 20 years, and quite possibly longer. I believe there were six mags (my cousin and I divided several items, and memory fades) and all but one functioned. These had butt plates stamped with his artillery unit number. The mag spring that failed had a different coil shape than the others, and could have been a replacement. I still shot these at the range up to about 12 years ago, so the service life of these particular springs was (is - they're in a drawer now, but I'd use them) approximately 80 years or more. "They don't make 'em like they used to" isn't true in this case, even with this example. Modern spring metallurgy and heat treatments are about 20 light years ahead of those WW1 springs. If anything, they are examples of the care taken in manufacture and QC in those days.
 
A friend sold me a Colt that had the mag loaded for a few years. It did fail. It would not feed correctly. It work well for him before he loaded the gun and put it up. I replaced the mag with a Wilson. I don't even keep the Wilsons loaded all the way either. I noticed one Wilson's advertisements mentions something about being able to be loaded longer periods of time then other mags and still be reliable.
This question comes up often I have noticed, and it is always subjective.:)
 
Mag spring update!

I just got back from the range and used my new mags for the first time. The big news is that the springs in the two new mags are now the same length as the springs in my older mags ... all I did was run 50 or so rounds through each of the two new mags and dis-assembled them when I got home for inspection. I am much relieved.

I think "Walosi" hit the nail on the head with his comments regarding springs that take a set - thanks!
 
Johnny Rad,

The mag spring is the last one I would worry about. Most gunfights are over after three shots. If your mag springs lose more tension “than the gun manufacturer intended” it will be the last rounds in the mag that potentially will fail to feed. Does it matter if round 10 in your mag feeds reliably 100% of the time if you are unlikely to ever need round 4 in a gunfight? Frankly, I have many handguns and rifles with high capacity magazines
which have always been kept loaded for more than 20 years and still function perfectly. Why would a perfectly good spring go bad from just being loaded? (My 87 Benz suspension springs have been loaded for 14 years but it has not sagged at all even
though I drive it all the time over bumpy roads. Have the springs failed in your car?)

What about the hammer spring in your arm that is left cocked too long??? Will it fail to fire??? What about all the other springs in your arms? Wollfe only makes a few springs for a few arms! Should we throw out all our arms every few years or every few thousand rounds cause they were made with defective springs?

Who carries cocked and locked? How often have you replaced your hammer spring which is under constant pressure and massive recoil forces? How often has the hammer spring failed?

IN SUMMARY:
- If you feel better by replacing perfectly good springs in your arms with aftermarket springs, I do not want you on my team.
- If you bought an arm that has defective springs which quickly fail, tell me which arms are defective so I can keep them off my team.
- If you are writing on the forum anonymously trying to trick unsuspecting users to throw out perfectly good springs and replace them with aftermarket springs, I do not want you
on my team.

Where do you stand? How often do you replace the springs in your car, keyboard, VCR remote, etc?

Regards,
George
In sunny Arizona

P.S. Some on the forum will strongly disagree with me. I don’t care about you! I am concerned about the vast majority here who have perfectly good springs in their arms and should NOT replace them with questionable after-market springs!
 
If mag springs never "take a set" or "lose their memory" then they would never wear out. Also if a tree falls in the forest it does make noise regardless of who is or is not there! To answer your question I have been increasing my Glock Hi Cap mag inventory of late and have seen this problem alot. I have been replacing alot of springs also.
 
Tom B,

Springs are made in a world of compromise. Springs can be made to maintain length and pressure till the day they break.
Yes, springs may be designed and manufactured to lose some length with use. The arm may also be designed to work with 100% reliability within this environment of spring change!

Please tell us in what manner your Glock springs failed. Did the springs break? If not, how did you determine failure?

Did you advise Glock of the defective springs? If so, what was their response?

What springs did you use to replace your original Glock mag springs?

Glocks have a lot of springs. Did you replace every spring in the arm?

Regards,
George
In sunny Arizona
 
Maybe I have just had bad luck, but mag springs wearing out is something I've experienced several times, always in a 1911 (which is the auto I shoot most). So it does happen.

As mentioned by another poster, you see it in feeding failures with the last couple of rounds from the magazine.

Were the springs substandard to begin with? How would any of us know?

Wolff makes replacements that are 5-10% stronger than normal.
 
These are mag springs that I am speaking of. Most got so they wouldn't feed the last round reliably. Some would have a round nosedive. These were mostly on older NFML hi cap mags that I purchased used so I don't know how many rounds thru them. I have a total of 18 HC mags for my Glocks now. For replacement I use Glockmeister mag rebuild kits (don't know which brand spring the kit contains but I suspect Wolff) and Wolff+10% springs.
 
AC,

I don't know why but for years I have heard of M1911 users getting defective springs. This is just an observation. I have never owned a M1911 nor had a defective spring in any of my arms even those nearly 30 years old.

Regards,
George
In sunny Arizona
 
Johnny Rad,
I have a Beretta 92FSC. When I decided to use +P ammo in it I ordered a stronger recoil spring to prevent battering and get the ejection distance back to what it was with non +P. I started have occasional failures to feed in what had been a 100% reliable pistol. After racking my brain I figured out that the stronger recoil spring was closing the slide faster and the stronger recoil was forcing the cartridges in the magazine downward more under recoil. I figured the slide was trying to feed a cartridge that wasn't always back in proper feeding position in the magazine. I ordered some Wolff +5% magazine springs and that has positively cured the problem. The springs in the magazines were about 3 years old and I had always kept the 13 round mags downloaded by one. Having said all that, in 25 years of shooting GOOD semi-auto's I've never had a failure to feed and have never changed a magazine spring in a gun that has the factory strength recoil spring in it and was used with the factory supplied magazines. So basically by using a stronger that factory recoil spring I had modified the manufacturer's design and the stronger magazine springs brought it back into balance. My humble opinion.
 
Team? What team? Oh the non new spring team...sorry...here we go again comparing gun springs to car springs to bed springs....yawn yawn yawn....as for the other springs in the gun not needing replacement, who cares? Mag springs seem to be the only ones that people have trouble with (and sometimes a recoil spring) so why does it matter if the other springs in your gun work fine? Also, it is ludicrous to think that just because most gunfights are over in less than four rounds we shouldn't care if round 10 works...then we might as well only carry 5 shot snubbies....anyone carrying a semi auto wants his gun to work flawlessly, whether it is life or death or just shooting at the range....springs are relatively cheap and if replacing thm gives you peace of mind, then go ahead....My P7 had last round feeding problems and HK replaced my 17 year old mags with brand new.....problem solved....maybe I shouldn't have cared about the last round since I will never need it in my 4 round gunfight but I like knowing it works. Anything can fail, even a spring so do what suits you best and don't worry who else is changing their springs. Even the Wolff family has to eat......
 
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From my perspective, putting new mag springs in a Ziploc bag is small-time insurance on a big dollar item that may not be replaceable down the road ... put me on the "new spring" team.

"Don't shoot" - H&K replaced your seventeen year old mags?! Wow, you really made out like a bandit on that one. I am SO giddy with exceitment ... I put a new P7M8 on order ten days ago!!! I hope to post pics @ hkpro & pctactical when it finally comes in.
 
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