I've been paying closer attention the the Beretta 92FS and noticed that older models were made in Italy versus current models made in the US. Setting "personal" preferences aside, which one will be better in the long-term for reliability and performance? A friend of mine insists that the Italy model is superior. I'm not getting into the "which country is the best" ordeal. I just want the hard facts. Thanks folks.
Made in Italy or US?
- Thread starter Spirex288
- Start date
The military is having some problems with the service life of their Berettas. I believe there is or was an investigation into it. Some of our military folks on active duty can probably shed some light on the problem. Seems to me it had to do with the frames and I believe it was with the ones made in this country, but don't hold me to this.
James Montes
New member
As a service member I have spent many an hour with the M9. I am not a BERETTA fan in the least bit. However, I think the M9 is a really good service pistol... It's not the 1911A1 GOVERNMENT mind you, but it is still a good DA/SA weapon.
I have found them to be more than adaquate if serviced properly. These weapons are used by so many people, not all service members follow protocol and "gundeck" the maintenance of the weapon.
The only real "complaints" I have concerning the M9 are the tight trigger pull in DA mode, the slide mounted ambi safety, and sub-par sights. Other than that it is a reliable weapon, durable (prone to rust however),combat accurate, & light in recoil. People with smaller hands tend not to like the grip size of the weapon, especially small handed women.
I think that the military should offer a variety of weapons to fit the needs of the shooter. If your like me you'd stick with a full size 1911 in .45ACP. If you like the BERETTA use it. If you have small hands opt for compact weapon like the M11 (SIG P228).
I think the BERETTA has got a bad rap. And it is totally unfounded given the parameters of what defines a SERVICE PISTOL. SIG, GLOCK, HK, and all other major manufactures who build service pistols would have the proposed "PROBLEMS" the BERETTA M9 has had sense its inception by the US MILITARY. I believe it has more to do with how the weapons are maintained and passed around than on the quality of the firearm. That has been experience thus far.
[This message has been edited by James Montes (edited January 02, 2000).]
I have found them to be more than adaquate if serviced properly. These weapons are used by so many people, not all service members follow protocol and "gundeck" the maintenance of the weapon.
The only real "complaints" I have concerning the M9 are the tight trigger pull in DA mode, the slide mounted ambi safety, and sub-par sights. Other than that it is a reliable weapon, durable (prone to rust however),combat accurate, & light in recoil. People with smaller hands tend not to like the grip size of the weapon, especially small handed women.
I think that the military should offer a variety of weapons to fit the needs of the shooter. If your like me you'd stick with a full size 1911 in .45ACP. If you like the BERETTA use it. If you have small hands opt for compact weapon like the M11 (SIG P228).
I think the BERETTA has got a bad rap. And it is totally unfounded given the parameters of what defines a SERVICE PISTOL. SIG, GLOCK, HK, and all other major manufactures who build service pistols would have the proposed "PROBLEMS" the BERETTA M9 has had sense its inception by the US MILITARY. I believe it has more to do with how the weapons are maintained and passed around than on the quality of the firearm. That has been experience thus far.
[This message has been edited by James Montes (edited January 02, 2000).]
Spirex, Please keep in mind that the U.S. and Italian Berettas share an identical design, but they are not identical handguns. U.S. 92's are mass-produced pieces of military hardware whereas the Italian models are virtually hand-made. Beretta has licensed many countries to manufacture their weapons including Helwan of Egypt and what is now Taurus of Brazil. Though they all use the same design, quality of materials and manufacturing processes can vary greatly from country to country and none really compare to the original. Imagine if General Motors got a license to mass produce Ferrari's at the Chevrolet plant. They would still probably be great cars, but they wouldn't quite be Ferrari's.
The U.S. made 92's (92/M9 = same thing) are fine weapons and I wouldn't be ashamed to own one. But if you get the opportunity to purchase an Italian model at a reasonable price I'd certainly take that one. Enjoy.
The U.S. made 92's (92/M9 = same thing) are fine weapons and I wouldn't be ashamed to own one. But if you get the opportunity to purchase an Italian model at a reasonable price I'd certainly take that one. Enjoy.
Part of the contract issued by the DOD was that the winning weapon be manufactured in the United States. In order for Beretta to keep the contract, they had to start making the M9 at a US facility.
I was at Aberdeen Proving Grounds in 1986-87. I believe that the problem you are referring to was the slide cracking at about 5,000 rounds. The Ordinance Department issued a fix for M9's on hand, and Beretta corrected the fault in suceeding pistols. That would have been sometime around 1986-'88.
I haven't been in since 1992, so a new problem may have cropped up.
Hope that helps.
LawDog
I was at Aberdeen Proving Grounds in 1986-87. I believe that the problem you are referring to was the slide cracking at about 5,000 rounds. The Ordinance Department issued a fix for M9's on hand, and Beretta corrected the fault in suceeding pistols. That would have been sometime around 1986-'88.
I haven't been in since 1992, so a new problem may have cropped up.
Hope that helps.
LawDog
Will Beararms
New member
Beretta - Accokeek,MD - 400,000 sq. ft.
***11 tools at a cost of over $60K/EA. for production with close tolerances & no metal stampings
***No stamped parts whatsoever all forged & machined
***Dimensional component tolerance the width of a human hair
***Each 92 Series proof fired w/55-60K proof load and magnafluxed for stress and cracks
***Each 92 Series unit cyled on a machine 300+ times to insure proper functioning
***Each 92 Series pistol fired 10-15 times before leaving factory
***Final QA station to inspect fit and finnish after all testing and assembly is completed.
Grip screws and barrels must be scrupulously oiled to ward off rust. Locking blocks must be checked frequently.
Average slide life: 75K rounds
Average frame life: 35K rounds
If the Italianos are better, and I don't dispute that, think of what you will be getting when all the above is factored in.
I hated Berreta's for many years, and we all know about service on the East Coast, not just with Gun makers, but I will go on record as saying that they are very proactive in terms of the big picture when it comes to indentifying major problems and quickly addressing them.
Furthermore, to this date, Beretta is not playing ball with the socialists like Glock,Sig and Colt. That in and of itself is worth something. They have publicly stated that "smart gun" technology is a disaster in the making and they have expended thousands to take on HCI in the courts and win at it.
Being a major owner of Benelli, they have taken the Shotgun line away from HK and have turned the Service and Parts Department around. If you are an avid Duck Hunter, as am I, this is a major accomplishment as Benelli is THE weapon for waterfowl hands down.
Yes, Beretta is not perfect but they have done some things right in the RKBA struggle and we need to support them based on those merits.
Have ah good un'---- WB
------------------
"When guns are outlawed;I will be an outlaw."
[This message has been edited by Will Beararms (edited January 03, 2000).]
***11 tools at a cost of over $60K/EA. for production with close tolerances & no metal stampings
***No stamped parts whatsoever all forged & machined
***Dimensional component tolerance the width of a human hair
***Each 92 Series proof fired w/55-60K proof load and magnafluxed for stress and cracks
***Each 92 Series unit cyled on a machine 300+ times to insure proper functioning
***Each 92 Series pistol fired 10-15 times before leaving factory
***Final QA station to inspect fit and finnish after all testing and assembly is completed.
Grip screws and barrels must be scrupulously oiled to ward off rust. Locking blocks must be checked frequently.
Average slide life: 75K rounds
Average frame life: 35K rounds
If the Italianos are better, and I don't dispute that, think of what you will be getting when all the above is factored in.
I hated Berreta's for many years, and we all know about service on the East Coast, not just with Gun makers, but I will go on record as saying that they are very proactive in terms of the big picture when it comes to indentifying major problems and quickly addressing them.
Furthermore, to this date, Beretta is not playing ball with the socialists like Glock,Sig and Colt. That in and of itself is worth something. They have publicly stated that "smart gun" technology is a disaster in the making and they have expended thousands to take on HCI in the courts and win at it.
Being a major owner of Benelli, they have taken the Shotgun line away from HK and have turned the Service and Parts Department around. If you are an avid Duck Hunter, as am I, this is a major accomplishment as Benelli is THE weapon for waterfowl hands down.
Yes, Beretta is not perfect but they have done some things right in the RKBA struggle and we need to support them based on those merits.
Have ah good un'---- WB
------------------
"When guns are outlawed;I will be an outlaw."
[This message has been edited by Will Beararms (edited January 03, 2000).]
James Montes
New member
The M9 has a chrome lined barrel, I don't think the 92F has that feature...
Will Beararms
New member
James:
The Beretta 92FS does have the chrome lined barrel. You will find that Chrome lining is prevailent with all Berettas be they handguns or shotguns.
Per the M9 contract, the Chrome lining must not be visible on the crown or front of the barrel. I cannot speak for the 92F but the 92FS does have the chrome lining sans the crown just like the M9.
------------------
"When guns are outlawed;I will be an outlaw."
The Beretta 92FS does have the chrome lined barrel. You will find that Chrome lining is prevailent with all Berettas be they handguns or shotguns.
Per the M9 contract, the Chrome lining must not be visible on the crown or front of the barrel. I cannot speak for the 92F but the 92FS does have the chrome lining sans the crown just like the M9.
------------------
"When guns are outlawed;I will be an outlaw."
I just bought the 92fs made in america . I had the choice of an itallian made that was in "like new cond." Or the new American made model. I chose the american made because I liked the sights better. I also wanted the factory warranty that came with the new american made one versus the used Itallian. I got it home and shot 100 rounds of cheap UMC 115 grain bullets with no misfires or jams and I was impressed with the accuracy . The only thing I don't like is how hard the clips are to load. I am hoping I can find a helper tool to assist in loading like my p90 ruger has. This is my first 9mm and I think I am going to like it!I would also think the Americans working for Berrtetta in Maryland would appreciate my support for their employment. Buy American!
plateshooter
New member
cplane:
I might suggest the HKS mag loader. They work great. You need the #941 for the 92 Beretta. Midway has them for $9.99, but they're availiable almost anywhere.
------------------
Good shootin to ya
Plateshooter
I might suggest the HKS mag loader. They work great. You need the #941 for the 92 Beretta. Midway has them for $9.99, but they're availiable almost anywhere.
------------------
Good shootin to ya
Plateshooter
thequickad
New member
I had own both American made and Italian made 92FS both in blue and stainless. They all function flawlessly. But the metal finish on the Italian models are much nicer and smoother. Same goes for the magazines.
Thanks Lawdog. I believe that was the problem I heard about. Thanks Willbeararms. Absolutely right about Beretta and their resistance to this smart gun garbage. The old man at Beretta wants to hear from you if you got problems with his guns. He takes it personally when his guns or his people do not function properly, and rest assured he isn't worried about how he solves the problem, but it does get solved. The family is a legend in Italy for their attention to detail and customer service. Still family owned and operated, the oldest business of its type in the world.
I can't wait until tax time gets here. I'll need the extra cash. I'm still in debt from buying an AR two months ago. It really broke the bank. 
I think I'll buy American even though the Italian made ones are much nicer. When it comes down to "do or die", I don't think looks or handmade quality would matter. Just as long as it goes bang.
This doesn't fit in this topic but how do you prep a gun for long-term storage? Oil the heck out of it?
I think I'll buy American even though the Italian made ones are much nicer. When it comes down to "do or die", I don't think looks or handmade quality would matter. Just as long as it goes bang.
This doesn't fit in this topic but how do you prep a gun for long-term storage? Oil the heck out of it?
Beretta Boy
New member
cplane:
I have found that keeping my Beretta 92fs mags loaded for a month or so has dramatically helped ease of reloading. Went shooting yesterday, and it was noticeably easier. You might consider trying it. I don't find those loader helper things to be much help. I tried one on my father's Ruger. Just my opinion.
-Aaron
I have found that keeping my Beretta 92fs mags loaded for a month or so has dramatically helped ease of reloading. Went shooting yesterday, and it was noticeably easier. You might consider trying it. I don't find those loader helper things to be much help. I tried one on my father's Ruger. Just my opinion.
-Aaron