(MA) question reagrding LTC application revisited

S

SnakeEye

New member
Hello all,
I have a couple of questions i was hoping i could get clarified..
(
to begin i livei n gloucester,Massachusetts)

my first questions is... before chapter 180, i was issued an FID ,valid until suspended or revoked..this obviously became null and void after the passage of that law..but on my current LTC application it asks if this is a new application or a renewal..
as i am not going for another FID ,and this is indeed my first application for an LTC, would this be considered a new application?

Secondly..the apllication states that it needs to be accompanied by two photographs, but fails to state the size or standard of those photographs..
what is indeed the corrrect size,and is there somewhere specific i should be going to get them?

lastly... as all lawfull purposes, and personal protection are no longer valid reasoins for applying for an unrestricted Class A LTC in Mass,
what good reason can a typical everyday citizen offer thats indeed compelling enough to demonstrate a need/desire to carry..


thank you all for your input..
 
You can't renew a license you never had.

Therefore, in an application for an LTC, your FID is irrelevant until you reach the question that asks if you've ever held any other firearms licenses.

"...on my current LTC application it asks if this is a new application or a renewal.."

"Current application?" You mean an unfiled application for a first LTC or an unfiled application to RENEW an existing LTC? If you HAVE an LTC, it is a renewal; if you've NEVER had an LTC, it is obviously a new application. What don't you understand? If you've already filed, the issue is moot.


"...lastly... as all lawfull [sic] purposes, and personal protection are no longer valid reasoins for applying for an unrestricted Class A LTC in Mass,
what good reason can a typical everyday citizen offer thats indeed compelling enough to demonstrate a need/desire to carry.."


Where are you getting this MISinformation from - the PD? All Lawful Purposes IS an unrestricted license. BOTH reasons are currently used as RFA's; ALP is the RECOMMENDED reason per the Mass. Chief of Police Ass'n. See Chief Glidden's book on licensing; he expressly recommends that departments NOT issue restricted LTC's or even Class B's.

Do you belong to GOAL yet? It sounds as if you need to get some GOOD information before you file that app! ;)
 
i am indeed a member of GOAL.
but there is such an overwhelming amount of conflicting information floating around that its enough to make my head spin..
I have been sitting on my application for many many months now, as im literrally to affraid to turn it in for fear that all the classed ive taken and all of the money ive spent in the process will simply result in a impotently restricted LTC.
The massachusetts laws should be two fold...first there should be a predetermination apllication.. if that apllication is met favorable ,then and only then shiould individuals be directed to spend the exorbenent amount of money in classes both required and not to get their permit..

this whole process just feels like a damn vegas crapshoot.. i pay first, and maybe if the stars are in just the right alignment illl get something out of it.. :p
 
SnakeEye, One BIG problem with Mass. is they let each city/town authority put their own "spin" on it. Some places are easy,some aren't. Personal protection is the only reason that you should have to give to recieve an un-restricted class A licence. I have heard that some people end up taking them to court over this. Good luck with this,let us know what you decide. Norm P.
 
Protect your rights AND your investment

by having a qualified (read: firearms) attorney prepare it. The statement of reasons for issuance is critical and, based on your posts, yours may not be that well prepared.

A professionally-prepared app immediately stands out from the hand-scribbled drivel the licensing officer usually gets. It sends a message - THIS applicant is taking the matter seriously and is prepared to do what it takes.

Call Nancy and ask her to recommend a lawyer or two who can prepare the app for you. ;)
 
Im indeed going to obtain the services of an attorney..Im still waiting on a reply from GOAL.
Theres such a sea of contradictory information both from friends whom are current licence holders and supposedly "informed individuals" on the internet that i have absolutely no firm confident ground to stand upon..Everytime i take a step forward,im always finding someone,or something that contradicts what iwas that i thought i was doing or stating correctly..
Id like to get an application in someday while im still young enough to enjoy it :D
seems that doing as you suggest is the onylway thats going to happen
 
The massachusetts laws should be two fold...first there should be a predetermination apllication.. if that apllication is met favorable ,then and only then shiould individuals be directed to spend the exorbenent amount of money in classes both required and not to get their permit..

And given that Mass. is the home of Ted Kennedy, and is lousy with anti-gun legislative and police sentiment - to the point where a police chief was clucking disapprovingly about women "arming themselves to the teeth" because they were asking permission to carry pepper spray when there was a serial rapist on the loose - that change will probably happen a week or two after hell freezes over.

If you want a license issued promptly for $10 good for four years, come join us up here in New Hampshire.
 
The following is what packing.org has on the matter of what to put in the application line calling for justification:

packing.org said:
As of July 1st 2003 The Firearms Record Bureau will "not" accept one lined phrases as an acceptable reason for issuance on "All Lawful Purposes" licenses. You must state in writing why you fear injury to your person or property in order to be issued an unrestricted LTC.
Click to expand...

This dovetails with what I just heard at a basic personal protection class in Manchester NH (which also fulfilled the Mass LTC training requirement), where they said that simple phrases will not pass muster because the application specifies "state in detail" (or something like that). Their interpretation was that a well-written paragraph detailing the nitty-gritty of "personal protection" has passed and will continue to.
 
This was my response from a well respected member of the Mass Firearms community. this seems to follow right along with your statements...

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hello,

I think it will be best if I answer your questions as you have asked them.
=========================================================
"My first question is... the application asks if this is a renewal of a LTC/FID or a new application?.. I have previously held an FID,which is no longer valid,but not an LTC. The wording is sort of ambiguous with the LTC slash FID.. Should i state that it is indeed a new application as its my first LTC application as logic seems to dictate,or check thats its a renewal,And in any case, should i include a copy of my previous FID along with application?"

Since this is your first application for a LTC, it is considered to be a new application. It does not matter whether you have had or now have a FID.
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"Secondly,the Gloucester app seems to require no affidavits or letters of recomendation. It only requires two references and their addresses. This being the case should I not include any long winded letters, and simply give the references only as indicated? "

I would always provide as much supporting information as possible. Two or three letters of reference are always a good idea, whether or not Gloucester PD asks for them.
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" And last, but not least is the "reason for applying for card" question..This is indeed where i have recieving the most mixed messages..
The App doesnt appear to require a letter of intent, but instead seems to only require a simple one line reply. Is "all lawfull purposes" indeed a valid reason that i can place in light of the seemingly light requirements of this application? or would this be foolish?"

You should apply for a Class A LTC for all lawful purposes, and attach a letter detailing all of your reasons for wanting and needing to carry a gun for personal protection. Simply saying you want a LTC "for all lawful purposes" does not even begin to provide the kind of justification necessary to obtain such an unrestricted license
Your letter should only be one page in length, and should give two or three specific reasons why you need to be able to carry a firearm to protect yourself from deadly attack.
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"The application states that i am to provide 3 photos with along with the applicaiton,but does not state their size or standard..."

Call your police station to confirm this, but I think the photos need to be about an inch square or so. This is considerably smaller than passport size.
 
Your letter should only be one page in length, and should give two or three specific reasons why you need to be able to carry a firearm to protect yourself from deadly attack.

That can mean so many different things - in California, for instance, urban police departments often require a specific named person as the source of the threat, such as a disgruntled and proven-dangerous abusive ex-spouse, and even then it can be a crapshoot unless you've donated enough money to the re-election campaign. Generalized fear of criminal attack is very often not considered sufficient.
 
Make it easy on yourself....Go down to the Police station and ask them what they require. In my town one of the dispachers handles that. She takes the photo's and fingerprints and will gladly help you in any way. All the Chief of Police has to do is sighn the license. Another town might handle the matters differently. Find out from THEM how to go about it.
 
Recipe for disaster

"Make it easy on yourself....Go down to the Police station and ask them what they require. In my town one of the dispachers handles that."

I wouldn't ask any dispatchers - or even the "licensing officers" - where to sign the application, still less "what they require." Moreover, many departments "require" burdensome production that is not authorized by - or completely in violation of - what the statute specifies.

Some departments "require" letters of recommendation; up to FIVE (5), on business letterhead! Note that the authorized form (F 25/26 as revised in 2002) has NO such requirement.

Some PD's "require" letters from a doctor - pure intimidation.

Some PD's "require" birth certificates and proof of residency in that town. Pure BS - a birth certificate can be bought from any town clerk; residency is NOT a requirement for a license.

Some towns fabricate their own bogus applications, in violation of the statute specifying a UNIFORM application. Want it? Go the the CHSB website and download it. You'll get the REAL one, not what some egotistical bully with a badge fabricated to intimidate and dissuade applicants.

The EX-dispatcher in my town tried to demand a Social Security number, claiming it was "required" to run the BOP check. This, despite the fact that it says "Optional" right next to "SS Number" on the form. :eek:

I refused; a real cop heard her tantrum and came out to see what her crisis was. His response? "We don't need the number to run a BOP." I gave her a contemptuous look, shook my head and turned my back on her. She is no longer there. The rest of that station - fire and police - is MUCH happier....

Wanna listen to intermeddling morons with no authority but a desperate need to act like they have some? Then ask a dispatcher like that one. :barf:

Want real forms and real answers? Go to the CHSB or GOAL websites for the legitimate forms and/or have a firearms attorney prepare the app.
 
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