Hi recently I bought a kimber vz24 sporter in 270 win. It was made by kimber during their final Oregon days. It has a replacement 2 position low profile Mauser safety to aid in scope usage. The problem is that after I put the safety on I can take that safety off by just raising the bolt handle. This Is a little scary. Any ideas on what is causing this and how do I fix it.
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M98 Replacement Safety Issue
- Thread starter chancesr
- Start date
The normal setup is that when the safety is put "on", it cams the cocking piece back off the sear. At that point, the trigger can be pulled without and resistance except its spring and without the firing pin falling. When the safety is put in the "off" (fire) position, the cocking piece is released to move forward and stop on the sear. Pulling the trigger then releases the firing pin and, if the rifle is loaded, it will fire. Tension for the safety is supplied by the firing pin spring as the safety is moved from one notch to another.
Here is what I think is happening with that low scope safety. Since the safety has limited motion, it does not use the normal notches. Instead, there is a spring screwed to the safety that provides tension to the safety. If that spring is missing or the screw is loose, the safety has no tension, so it won't stay in place. When the bolt is cocked, the cocking piece moves to the rear and the safety is free to flop around, usually to fall to the "fire" position. That is dangerous and needs to be repaired.
Jim
Here is what I think is happening with that low scope safety. Since the safety has limited motion, it does not use the normal notches. Instead, there is a spring screwed to the safety that provides tension to the safety. If that spring is missing or the screw is loose, the safety has no tension, so it won't stay in place. When the bolt is cocked, the cocking piece moves to the rear and the safety is free to flop around, usually to fall to the "fire" position. That is dangerous and needs to be repaired.
Jim
the first time I got involved in the question about mauser safeties, as I remember, most simply just locked up, the others ran into the curb. All I asked is "What holds the safety in?" then I had to clarify the question by asking the same question but with the qualifying statement "What holds the Mauser safety in?" Then I had to amend the answer to add more detail, "What holds the left hand Mauser safety in 'PLACE'?". Then I changed the answer to "What prevents the Mauser safety from falling out?"
Some of the replacements safeties were two part that were held in place by a screw, when the screw is removed/lost nothing holds the safety in place and there is nothing preventing it from coming out.
then there is the problem of mixing parts, a rare occurrence, but again, the last time I said a part was rare the experts of rare parts lit up the key boards, then I said there are degrease of rare. I was not talking whale poo=poo rare, I do not know of any one that has seen whale poo-poo, I have not seen whale poo-poo, whale poo-poo qualifies as being rare, the parts I was refering to are not as rare as whale poo-poo.
F. Guffey
Some of the replacements safeties were two part that were held in place by a screw, when the screw is removed/lost nothing holds the safety in place and there is nothing preventing it from coming out.
then there is the problem of mixing parts, a rare occurrence, but again, the last time I said a part was rare the experts of rare parts lit up the key boards, then I said there are degrease of rare. I was not talking whale poo=poo rare, I do not know of any one that has seen whale poo-poo, I have not seen whale poo-poo, whale poo-poo qualifies as being rare, the parts I was refering to are not as rare as whale poo-poo.
F. Guffey
if the safety does not have a strap that goes over in front of the bolt sleeve it is missing, with the screw.
The Mauser safety has the integral safety hold in place notch made onto the safety. As all of you remember, the safety on the Mauser bolt installs on the right side, THEN! is rotated counter clock wise to the 9 o'clock position, AND! the cocking piece holds the safety in place when it is rotated to the 3 O'clock position.
F. Guffey
That leaves that sorta rare part.
The Mauser safety has the integral safety hold in place notch made onto the safety. As all of you remember, the safety on the Mauser bolt installs on the right side, THEN! is rotated counter clock wise to the 9 o'clock position, AND! the cocking piece holds the safety in place when it is rotated to the 3 O'clock position.
F. Guffey
That leaves that sorta rare part.
It is the Buehler version that requires a screw to retain it.
There is a Mk 2 safety that uses no retaining feature but a little plastic button to provide some friction.
Either of these requires just a little gunsmith work to properly lift the striker off the sear via camming action when engaged.
I absolutely agree if a safety is malfunctioning,as yours is,it is dangerous and needs correction.
I also agree,on a fine rifle like your Kimber,an M-70 type sideswing safety such as a Gentry will cost you some money,but it would be an excellent solution.
There is a Mk 2 safety that uses no retaining feature but a little plastic button to provide some friction.
Either of these requires just a little gunsmith work to properly lift the striker off the sear via camming action when engaged.
I absolutely agree if a safety is malfunctioning,as yours is,it is dangerous and needs correction.
I also agree,on a fine rifle like your Kimber,an M-70 type sideswing safety such as a Gentry will cost you some money,but it would be an excellent solution.
This happens often with some of the elcheapo "scope safeties". Never had it happen with Buehler but see it often with the so called "Mark II". At this point, it's not really a problem since a 98 Mauser CANNOT FIRE unless the bolt is closed. Later, the safety will wear more and will self release now and then. Then it becomes a problem. Maybe it's time to look for a Buehler/Timney replacement.
“I can take that safety off by just raising the bolt handle”
As everyone knows, on this forum, the Mauser bolt is installed when the safety is set as, meaning the safety is supporting the firing pin assemble. After installing the bolt the trigger is in the ‘no load' condition. When the trigger is in the no load condition, the load is on safety. To transfer the load to the trigger the safety is released. Raising the bolt handle, lowering the bolt handle should not cause the safety to release, removing the bolt should not cause the safety to release.
The safety has a notch, normally in the firing position the flag is in the 9 o’clock position and the notch is in the 6 o’clock position. Then there are variations, the Mauser safety has a detent, when the safety is set the flag is at the 12 o’clock position and the detent when the 6 o’clock position, When the detent is holding the firing pin assemble there is nothing that will put the safety into a no load position, the handle can be raised and lowered, the bolt can be removed, nothing. As everyone on this forum knows when the bolt is removed to be dissembled the safety is set before the bolt is removed, again, raising the bolt handle nor removing the bolt releases the load applied to the safety, ‘UNLESS!!’ raising the bolt handle cocks the rifle and again, everyone on this forum knows THAT SHOULD NOT HAPPEN.
Again, there is a detent, if there is no detent, there should be a detent. The after market detent is not located in the same position as the Mauser safety, that does not give the after market safeties exemption status .
Questions like this have been with the forums forever, years ago there were so many experts, anyhow a question came from Michigan, I sent him three safeties, one could not be applied, one worked perfectly and the other could would allow the flag to be raised with ‘no load’ on the safety, meaning it would not remove the load from the trigger.
F. Guffey
“I can take that safety off by just raising the bolt handle” Off as in removing the safety or off as in releasing safety? If you do not have a detent, get one.
As everyone knows, on this forum, the Mauser bolt is installed when the safety is set as, meaning the safety is supporting the firing pin assemble. After installing the bolt the trigger is in the ‘no load' condition. When the trigger is in the no load condition, the load is on safety. To transfer the load to the trigger the safety is released. Raising the bolt handle, lowering the bolt handle should not cause the safety to release, removing the bolt should not cause the safety to release.
The safety has a notch, normally in the firing position the flag is in the 9 o’clock position and the notch is in the 6 o’clock position. Then there are variations, the Mauser safety has a detent, when the safety is set the flag is at the 12 o’clock position and the detent when the 6 o’clock position, When the detent is holding the firing pin assemble there is nothing that will put the safety into a no load position, the handle can be raised and lowered, the bolt can be removed, nothing. As everyone on this forum knows when the bolt is removed to be dissembled the safety is set before the bolt is removed, again, raising the bolt handle nor removing the bolt releases the load applied to the safety, ‘UNLESS!!’ raising the bolt handle cocks the rifle and again, everyone on this forum knows THAT SHOULD NOT HAPPEN.
Again, there is a detent, if there is no detent, there should be a detent. The after market detent is not located in the same position as the Mauser safety, that does not give the after market safeties exemption status .
Questions like this have been with the forums forever, years ago there were so many experts, anyhow a question came from Michigan, I sent him three safeties, one could not be applied, one worked perfectly and the other could would allow the flag to be raised with ‘no load’ on the safety, meaning it would not remove the load from the trigger.
F. Guffey
“I can take that safety off by just raising the bolt handle” Off as in removing the safety or off as in releasing safety? If you do not have a detent, get one.